Project "Ricky Bobby"
04-24-2012, 06:00 PM
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Turbo Talk
It was a tough call for me to decide to choose turbo as there are many other good options for power adders out there for the 5th gen. I have always liked the feel and adjustability of a turbo car though. After consulting with friends and performance shops majority of the fingers pointed to turbo as well for a street car. At the time of placing the order for the turbo kit there were many options a few being IPS Motorsports, LG Motorsports, and Hennessy. The final decision for IPS was because I had seen the capabilities of their kit and I liked the fit and finish of the kit. They included several upgrades as a standard for their kit and were the only company to offer an upgraded inter cooler. IPS offers three turbo options with their kit, GT3076r / GT3582r / GT3586r. I knew with the larger cubes I am running that spool or lag would not be much of an issue. I also knew that upping the compression will also help with any lag that I would have so the decision to get the twin GT3586R turbo was easy.
Ball Bearings are standard on all IPS kits so no extra charge there which should allow for quicker spool vs. the traditional journal based turbo. The next part is the wheel design, options being cast or billet HTA. Researching the differences it’s quickly clear that the billet wheels will flow more and usually spool faster. The reason being that the billet wheel is made of a stronger material and thus can be machined to be smaller or thinner which makes more space for air. Also being smaller allows for the wheels to be lighter weight aiding in a faster spool time. Also because the blades are now machined instead of casting the design of the blades can be more intricate allowing for improved flow.
The compressor covers are also a 4” inlet design called an S cover which for some is an option but with IPS is another standard. The next part to decide is the hot side A/R housing. The GT3586R / HTA have a few options for covers and designs. I wanted all V Band connections. This is another one of those standards for IPS kits. The V band design allows for the turbo to be clocked or rotated for easier fitment and an easier seal to prevent leaks and the hassle of bolts or gaskets. With the V band housing coming from Tial, I only had two options for the GT35 series of turbo. Those options being a .82 or 1.03 housing. As stated earlier, I am not too concerned with the rate of spool so 1.03 it is. The .82 housing would allow for a little faster spooling and more response down low in the RPM but would also restrict or choke it out up top.
This is where it gets more confusing. The Tial housing being V band based has no flanges and no classification as T3,T4,T6 turbo. After talking with several turbo techs and the people that make the housing and turbo itself, it is evident that the housing is physically smaller and lighter than a traditional T4 based turbo. This is because the housing is made of stronger material than the cast housings and can be thinner allowing for larger internal diameter and thinner walled for lighter weight. The 2” V band housing has a volute based off a T3 but is a tad bit larger internally. So physically it is in between the T3 and T4 turbo but once again because it is machined oppose to cast the walls and design allow for a better flow. The flow characteristics were described to me that it will spool similar to a t3 but will allow for more top end making it more like a t4 snail.
I have looked at compressor maps of the GT3582r turbo before and I am pleased with where I am on those and the GT3586r should only be better. I have yet to see a compressor map for the GT3586r turbo. It has taken me a while to understand all of this but I feel I have a decent understanding now. I am sure some of these things might be like snake oil or only make marginal changes but hopefully the accumulation of all of them will make them a good fit for the project. The final run down of the turbos:
Garret Billet HTA Ball Bearing 3586R
61.44mm Inlet with 86mm exducer in a .70 A/R housing with a machined Tial V band compressor with 2” inlet and 3” exhaust and 1.03 A/R producing 75lbs/min flow. It is a 62mm turbo and has a trim of about 52.
04-24-2012, 07:15 PM
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Turbo Talk
It was a tough call for me to decide to choose turbo as there are many other good options for power adders out there for the 5th gen. I have always liked the feel and adjustability of a turbo car though. After consulting with friends and performance shops majority of the fingers pointed to turbo as well for a street car. At the time of placing the order for the turbo kit there were many options a few being IPS Motorsports, LG Motorsports, and Hennessy. The final decision for IPS was because I had seen the capabilities of their kit and I liked the fit and finish of the kit. They included several upgrades as a standard for their kit and were the only company to offer an upgraded inter cooler. IPS offers three turbo options with their kit, GT3076r / GT3582r / GT3586r. I knew with the larger cubes I am running that spool or lag would not be much of an issue. I also knew that upping the compression will also help with any lag that I would have so the decision to get the twin GT3586R turbo was easy.
Ball Bearings are standard on all IPS kits so no extra charge there which should allow for quicker spool vs. the traditional journal based turbo. The next part is the wheel design, options being cast or billet HTA. Researching the differences it’s quickly clear that the billet wheels will flow more and usually spool faster. The reason being that the billet wheel is made of a stronger material and thus can be machined to be smaller or thinner which makes more space for air. Also being smaller allows for the wheels to be lighter weight aiding in a faster spool time. Also because the blades are now machined instead of casting the design of the blades can be more intricate allowing for improved flow.
The compressor covers are also a 4” inlet design called an S cover which for some is an option but with IPS is another standard. The next part to decide is the hot side A/R housing. The GT3586R / HTA have a few options for covers and designs. I wanted all V Band connections. This is another one of those standards for IPS kits. The V band design allows for the turbo to be clocked or rotated for easier fitment and an easier seal to prevent leaks and the hassle of bolts or gaskets. With the V band housing coming from Tial, I only had two options for the GT35 series of turbo. Those options being a .82 or 1.03 housing. As stated earlier, I am not too concerned with the rate of spool so 1.03 it is. The .82 housing would allow for a little faster spooling and more response down low in the RPM but would also restrict or choke it out up top.
This is where it gets more confusing. The Tial housing being V band based has no flanges and no classification as T3,T4,T6 turbo. After talking with several turbo techs and the people that make the housing and turbo itself, it is evident that the housing is physically smaller and lighter than a traditional T4 based turbo. This is because the housing is made of stronger material than the cast housings and can be thinner allowing for larger internal diameter and thinner walled for lighter weight. The 2” V band housing has a volute based off a T3 but is a tad bit larger internally. So physically it is in between the T3 and T4 turbo but once again because it is machined oppose to cast the walls and design allow for a better flow. The flow characteristics were described to me that it will spool similar to a t3 but will allow for more top end making it more like a t4 snail.
I have looked at compressor maps of the GT3582r turbo before and I am pleased with where I am on those and the GT3586r should only be better. I have yet to see a compressor map for the GT3586r turbo. It has taken me a while to understand all of this but I feel I have a decent understanding now. I am sure some of these things might be like snake oil or only make marginal changes but hopefully the accumulation of all of them will make them a good fit for the project. The final run down of the turbos:
Garret Billet HTA Ball Bearing 3586R
61.44mm Inlet with 86mm exducer in a .70 A/R housing with a machined Tial V band compressor with 2” inlet and 3” exhaust and 1.03 A/R producing 75lbs/min flow. It is a 62mm turbo and has a trim of about 52.
It was a tough call for me to decide to choose turbo as there are many other good options for power adders out there for the 5th gen. I have always liked the feel and adjustability of a turbo car though. After consulting with friends and performance shops majority of the fingers pointed to turbo as well for a street car. At the time of placing the order for the turbo kit there were many options a few being IPS Motorsports, LG Motorsports, and Hennessy. The final decision for IPS was because I had seen the capabilities of their kit and I liked the fit and finish of the kit. They included several upgrades as a standard for their kit and were the only company to offer an upgraded inter cooler. IPS offers three turbo options with their kit, GT3076r / GT3582r / GT3586r. I knew with the larger cubes I am running that spool or lag would not be much of an issue. I also knew that upping the compression will also help with any lag that I would have so the decision to get the twin GT3586R turbo was easy.
Ball Bearings are standard on all IPS kits so no extra charge there which should allow for quicker spool vs. the traditional journal based turbo. The next part is the wheel design, options being cast or billet HTA. Researching the differences it’s quickly clear that the billet wheels will flow more and usually spool faster. The reason being that the billet wheel is made of a stronger material and thus can be machined to be smaller or thinner which makes more space for air. Also being smaller allows for the wheels to be lighter weight aiding in a faster spool time. Also because the blades are now machined instead of casting the design of the blades can be more intricate allowing for improved flow.
The compressor covers are also a 4” inlet design called an S cover which for some is an option but with IPS is another standard. The next part to decide is the hot side A/R housing. The GT3586R / HTA have a few options for covers and designs. I wanted all V Band connections. This is another one of those standards for IPS kits. The V band design allows for the turbo to be clocked or rotated for easier fitment and an easier seal to prevent leaks and the hassle of bolts or gaskets. With the V band housing coming from Tial, I only had two options for the GT35 series of turbo. Those options being a .82 or 1.03 housing. As stated earlier, I am not too concerned with the rate of spool so 1.03 it is. The .82 housing would allow for a little faster spooling and more response down low in the RPM but would also restrict or choke it out up top.
This is where it gets more confusing. The Tial housing being V band based has no flanges and no classification as T3,T4,T6 turbo. After talking with several turbo techs and the people that make the housing and turbo itself, it is evident that the housing is physically smaller and lighter than a traditional T4 based turbo. This is because the housing is made of stronger material than the cast housings and can be thinner allowing for larger internal diameter and thinner walled for lighter weight. The 2” V band housing has a volute based off a T3 but is a tad bit larger internally. So physically it is in between the T3 and T4 turbo but once again because it is machined oppose to cast the walls and design allow for a better flow. The flow characteristics were described to me that it will spool similar to a t3 but will allow for more top end making it more like a t4 snail.
I have looked at compressor maps of the GT3582r turbo before and I am pleased with where I am on those and the GT3586r should only be better. I have yet to see a compressor map for the GT3586r turbo. It has taken me a while to understand all of this but I feel I have a decent understanding now. I am sure some of these things might be like snake oil or only make marginal changes but hopefully the accumulation of all of them will make them a good fit for the project. The final run down of the turbos:
Garret Billet HTA Ball Bearing 3586R
61.44mm Inlet with 86mm exducer in a .70 A/R housing with a machined Tial V band compressor with 2” inlet and 3” exhaust and 1.03 A/R producing 75lbs/min flow. It is a 62mm turbo and has a trim of about 52.
Glad to see I'm not alone out there
Good looking car though, lovin the Bogarts too
04-25-2012, 04:20 PM
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Injectors Injectors
The next part of the fuel system came in. Injector Dynamic 1000’s are the clear choice. My tuner recommends them and uses them himself. Injector Dynamic orders batches of Injectors and then proceeds to dynamically characterize them to determine their flow across the pulse width range. This not only allows ID to ensure a proper working injector across the pulse width but also allows them to create matching sets. Having a matching set will allow greater control of the fuel flow into each cylinder and superior cylinder to cylinder consistency. The data collected from ID is also available to the tuner (In my case DSX tuning) to adjust and refine the ECU compensations for dead on Air Fuel at differing atmospheric and voltage conditions.
05-14-2012, 03:43 PM
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Get Get Gettin Some Head Despite the box being a little banged up, the goods made the trip un-scathed. When the decision to choose which head to run on the new motor came up there where a few options. The options I considered were TSP, LSX LS7 6-bolt, and the All Pro 6-Bolt. Richard at West Coast Cylinder Heads, Whom is a leader in the LS cylinder head community, suggested the All Pro cylinder heads for my application. So the trigger was pulled and about a month later these are on my door step.
As seen in the markings below you can tell they are All Pro LSW 12* cylinder head.
The deck thickness of the All Pro heads are 3/4'” to aide in gasket sealing and to help prevent the head from any warping issues. Richard uses a 5 axis CNC machine to port each cylinder combustion chamber, Intake runner, and Exhaust runner. This is a nice feature as it maintains that each runner is exactly the same from cylinder to cylinder, which is important because it helps maintain cylinder to cylinder equality in fuel and air. This should help in tuning, lean spike occurrences, or lean cylinders.
Exhaust Port
The Intake runner is a rectangle port to match the LS7 style intake manifold I will be running which seems to have a little better top end power.
The Springs are Manley Dual Spring kit good to .660 lift. The dual spring option is nice because if in the occurrence that the main spring fails or snaps the second spring should continue to hold the valve up to prevent contact with the piston. For obvious reason the valve and piston hitting would be catastrophic.
Another nice feature is the heads have the room for large diameter springs. A larger spring is needed when running a solid lifter oppose to a hydraulic because more pressure is needed to keep the lifter from hopping and running smoothly on the lobe. I however am not running a solid lifter as I didn’t want the constant lash checking and easier on the valve train. Plus I can attain the lifts I want with a hydraulic setup.
Next up is the combustion chambers. The All Pro’s come in two available options, a 58cc and a 70cc. My compression setup was designed on the 70cc setup which is what these heads are.
Now we have the massive valves to let air in and out. The intake valves are Titanium 2.250 valves. Titanium was chosen to help keep the weight down as the lighter the valve train is the better it will operate, easier on parts, and the more stable it will be at higher RPM. A large goal of mine has been to stabilize the valve train as much as possible so I can really spin this engine over.
The exhaust valve is a 1.650 Inconel. Inconel is an alloy that is used to sustain high temps. You can also notice that the exhaust and intake are both dished to help reduce weight but still retain structural integrity.
Gratuitous Head Shots
Next is the Lifters. A few options on these as well. Many are still using a Stock ls7 lifter with great results but I still like improve if I can. The Lifter I choose are a Comp lifter in a standard LS7 bore size.
As you can see here the lifters are a link bar lifter which is to one, help stabilize valve train at high RPM, and two, keep the lifter from rotating in the lifter bore and damaging the roller or lobes on the cam.
Why I choose these is because these are what Comp calls a Short Travel Lifter. This means it has the characteristics of a hydraulic lifter and lash setting of hydraulic lifter but it also has some response and lift characteristics of a solid lifer. Kind of the best of both worlds, and Comp says these will help stabilize valve train at higher rpm.
The Rockers have also come in. I choose to use Yella Terra LS7 1.8 Performance rocker. Many still use the stock LS7 rockers with a Comp Trunion sealed bearing upgrade but looking at cost, I figured spend a little more and get a stronger rocker. Rockers are a crucial piece of the valve train to support my goal of a stable high RPM.
These are an extruded aluminum bodies to help prevent any deflection. Deflection can cause the rocker arm to break or to break the mounting hardware; Deflection will also take away from total lift there by reducing power. The tips have rollers to prevent wear and friction to save the valves stems and free up HP. The mounting setup is a Shaft mount rocker. The shaft running between the rockers helps prevent deflection and adds strength to the rocker. The bearings are a sealed trunion as well to prevent any needle bearings passing through the system in the occurrence of a failure.
And the final addition for today is the arrival of some more parts to the Fuel system, all Aeromotive fittings, filters, and rails.
Thanks for reading, more to come……
As seen in the markings below you can tell they are All Pro LSW 12* cylinder head.
The deck thickness of the All Pro heads are 3/4'” to aide in gasket sealing and to help prevent the head from any warping issues. Richard uses a 5 axis CNC machine to port each cylinder combustion chamber, Intake runner, and Exhaust runner. This is a nice feature as it maintains that each runner is exactly the same from cylinder to cylinder, which is important because it helps maintain cylinder to cylinder equality in fuel and air. This should help in tuning, lean spike occurrences, or lean cylinders.
Exhaust Port
The Intake runner is a rectangle port to match the LS7 style intake manifold I will be running which seems to have a little better top end power.
The Springs are Manley Dual Spring kit good to .660 lift. The dual spring option is nice because if in the occurrence that the main spring fails or snaps the second spring should continue to hold the valve up to prevent contact with the piston. For obvious reason the valve and piston hitting would be catastrophic.
Another nice feature is the heads have the room for large diameter springs. A larger spring is needed when running a solid lifter oppose to a hydraulic because more pressure is needed to keep the lifter from hopping and running smoothly on the lobe. I however am not running a solid lifter as I didn’t want the constant lash checking and easier on the valve train. Plus I can attain the lifts I want with a hydraulic setup.
Next up is the combustion chambers. The All Pro’s come in two available options, a 58cc and a 70cc. My compression setup was designed on the 70cc setup which is what these heads are.
Now we have the massive valves to let air in and out. The intake valves are Titanium 2.250 valves. Titanium was chosen to help keep the weight down as the lighter the valve train is the better it will operate, easier on parts, and the more stable it will be at higher RPM. A large goal of mine has been to stabilize the valve train as much as possible so I can really spin this engine over.
The exhaust valve is a 1.650 Inconel. Inconel is an alloy that is used to sustain high temps. You can also notice that the exhaust and intake are both dished to help reduce weight but still retain structural integrity.
Gratuitous Head Shots
Next is the Lifters. A few options on these as well. Many are still using a Stock ls7 lifter with great results but I still like improve if I can. The Lifter I choose are a Comp lifter in a standard LS7 bore size.
As you can see here the lifters are a link bar lifter which is to one, help stabilize valve train at high RPM, and two, keep the lifter from rotating in the lifter bore and damaging the roller or lobes on the cam.
Why I choose these is because these are what Comp calls a Short Travel Lifter. This means it has the characteristics of a hydraulic lifter and lash setting of hydraulic lifter but it also has some response and lift characteristics of a solid lifer. Kind of the best of both worlds, and Comp says these will help stabilize valve train at higher rpm.
The Rockers have also come in. I choose to use Yella Terra LS7 1.8 Performance rocker. Many still use the stock LS7 rockers with a Comp Trunion sealed bearing upgrade but looking at cost, I figured spend a little more and get a stronger rocker. Rockers are a crucial piece of the valve train to support my goal of a stable high RPM.
These are an extruded aluminum bodies to help prevent any deflection. Deflection can cause the rocker arm to break or to break the mounting hardware; Deflection will also take away from total lift there by reducing power. The tips have rollers to prevent wear and friction to save the valves stems and free up HP. The mounting setup is a Shaft mount rocker. The shaft running between the rockers helps prevent deflection and adds strength to the rocker. The bearings are a sealed trunion as well to prevent any needle bearings passing through the system in the occurrence of a failure.
And the final addition for today is the arrival of some more parts to the Fuel system, all Aeromotive fittings, filters, and rails.
Thanks for reading, more to come……
05-14-2012, 08:49 PM
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Thanks guys, I was pretty excited about them.
Forgot to add the Flow Data. These are with the smaller valves but they should be close.
Oh yeah…. Over 400+ CFM!!!
Here is the final run down of the heads as well.
LSW-1 12* Retro Head Castings with GM rocker arm stands, ARP rocker arm bolts, Victory 1 2.250” Titanium intake valves, REV 1.650” inconel exhaust valves, Manley dual springs, WCCH 5-axis porting job, WCCH competition valve job, WCCH guide hone, and deck surfaced.
Forgot to add the Flow Data. These are with the smaller valves but they should be close.
Oh yeah…. Over 400+ CFM!!!
Here is the final run down of the heads as well.
LSW-1 12* Retro Head Castings with GM rocker arm stands, ARP rocker arm bolts, Victory 1 2.250” Titanium intake valves, REV 1.650” inconel exhaust valves, Manley dual springs, WCCH 5-axis porting job, WCCH competition valve job, WCCH guide hone, and deck surfaced.
