Blower motor with F-3R-130
10-11-2012, 08:35 PM
#21
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Doing something similar. Dart tall deck block, Callies CCW 4.250" stroke, All Pro 12-2 heads and F3R 130. Chances are it won't work but we are already committed to the project. If it works then watch out. If not then learned that big stroke and blowers don't mix...
10-11-2012, 11:47 PM
#23
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Josh when you return from the sandbox I've got some information for you.
You guys are going to see some serious numbers from this combination, we aren't going BBC, staying LSX is what makes this even more fun. I love a challenge.
The strokes longer than 4" is for stock production block stuff that has stock sleeves. The problem occurs when a long stroke is utilized and the pistons skirt actually is pulled so far down the sleeve at BDC that the skirt becomes exposed and has no support when this happens. This allows the piston to rock in the bore as it is returning from BDC to TDC and causes wear on the skirts of the piston allowing oil to make it's way past the oil ring and raises oil consumption considerably.
You guys are going to see some serious numbers from this combination, we aren't going BBC, staying LSX is what makes this even more fun. I love a challenge.
The strokes longer than 4" is for stock production block stuff that has stock sleeves. The problem occurs when a long stroke is utilized and the pistons skirt actually is pulled so far down the sleeve at BDC that the skirt becomes exposed and has no support when this happens. This allows the piston to rock in the bore as it is returning from BDC to TDC and causes wear on the skirts of the piston allowing oil to make it's way past the oil ring and raises oil consumption considerably.
10-12-2012, 02:38 PM
#26
Josh I will be speaking with Dan Schonek today about some finer points in the build that I think need to be addressed mainly the stroke and rod length.
I should have some solid information when I'm done talking to him. He just made 1440rwhp on a 331 with a F1X so I think he has a good idea of what needs to be done
.
I should have some solid information when I'm done talking to him. He just made 1440rwhp on a 331 with a F1X so I think he has a good idea of what needs to be done
. 
10-12-2012, 02:47 PM
#28
We are more worried about piston speed than anything else. That and is it really needed.
My thought is with that much stroke in a motor that is going to make well north of 2500rwhp is that this thing is going to be so hard to get off the starting line under the power we need it to be under in the first 20-80' that the long stroke and massive amounts of torque it will make will be too much to control as the power comes on.
Even if I change the cam timing to change the power curve then we run into piston speed problems when we spin it too high to take advantage of that new power curve.
Ahh the joys of a 3000hp motor...got to love it
10-12-2012, 02:52 PM
#29
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I just can't wait to get the final product figured out and start getting parts to put this beast together!!! I think what you said in the email sounds like the best bet.
10-12-2012, 07:43 PM
#31
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My thought is with that much stroke in a motor that is going to make well north of 2500rwhp is that this thing is going to be so hard to get off the starting line under the power we need it to be under in the first 20-80' that the long stroke and massive amounts of torque it will make will be too much to control as the power comes on.
10-13-2012, 02:16 AM
#32
I don't like to be a naysayer, but if you want to run up front in ODR (and I'm saying this being one of the silly bastards building a max effort lsx) then I think you are going to regret the LS choice. That is my only regret to going the direction I have with my car. It's only good for one class and I have to dial back the power adder choice to run a 275 class.
10-13-2012, 08:52 AM
#33
I currently already have a World Warhawk tall deck block with Callies billet 4.250 crank and billet 6.460 H-beam rods. I got this block with a set of nitrous pistons with the intent to build another nitrous motor, but If I swap to a blower I planned on getting a nice set of GRP aluminum rods and new dished pistons. Do you think the 4.250 stroke with a 4.125 piston is too much? What is the least amount of piston crown recommended for a blower motor? Thank you.
Ever hear of a BBC? They have a std. deckheight of 9.8". Sound familiar?
A 4.25" stroke has been used in that application for 40+ years and counting.
Best of luck with your build.
10-13-2012, 08:58 AM
#35
Short times comes from experience, knowledge, along with talent.
10-13-2012, 09:11 AM
#36
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You'll have a 1.2x compression height with a 4.25" stroke with a 9.8" deckheight. Common place to use that stroke with a 9.8" deckheight. Anything less makes for a heavy piston.
Ever hear of a BBC? They have a std. deckheight of 9.8". Sound familiar?
A 4.25" stroke has been used in that application for 40+ years and counting.
Best of luck with your build.
Ever hear of a BBC? They have a std. deckheight of 9.8". Sound familiar?
A 4.25" stroke has been used in that application for 40+ years and counting.
Best of luck with your build.
10-13-2012, 09:29 AM
#37
I have heard of BBC, and yes with the 4.250 stroke the pistons have a 1.210 compression height. BBC also run a lot bigger bores. I know I could build this combo into what I want but it would not be that reliable and would have to be torn down way to often. I am switching to a 4" stoke with a standard deck LS based block. I am trying to sell this Warhawk setup, but if it doesn't sell then I will just build it into a nitrous motor like originally intended and put it in my Trans-Am. Thank you everyone for your help and comments. I will keep everyone posted on how this build comes along. I will still be building a blower motor and using a large Procharger F-3R setup, just not with this block and rotating assembly. I am switching to something a little bit more practical for the build.
Best of luck. Hope it works out for you.
10-13-2012, 09:57 AM
#38
Guys, guys, guys....will there be obstacles to overcome during this build? Of course, but there are obstacles to overcome in every build. The only difference here is the magnitude of those obstacles.
Do you think Steve Jackson, Frank Soldrige, Kevin Fiscus and numerous others got to where they are by saying, damn I can't do that because someone told me it's not possible? Hell no they didn't, they found the best people in the industry to help them get it done and show them that it could be done.
After talking with some very knowledgeable people who specifically deal with blowers and who have built engines of this magnitude before, it can and will be done. If KUP can build Carlyle's motor and have it stand up to 2600+hp then they can build this engine just as well. Josh and I have every bit of confidence in Kurt and Brian that it can be done if attention is payed to detail and the right combination of parts is utilized.
Getting it off the starting line will have the same attention paid to it as the engine and valve-train set-ups do. Transmission will either be a 2spd turbo 400 or a 3spd 400 with 1.86 first gear/1.33 second. Blowers are easier to me in getting to launch under as much power as the track will hold and getting the power in quickly. With being able to turn the timing down with either gear retards, launch retard or time based rev limits retard or a combination of two or all the above....it really allows you a ton of options for achieving this.
Do you think Steve Jackson, Frank Soldrige, Kevin Fiscus and numerous others got to where they are by saying, damn I can't do that because someone told me it's not possible? Hell no they didn't, they found the best people in the industry to help them get it done and show them that it could be done.
After talking with some very knowledgeable people who specifically deal with blowers and who have built engines of this magnitude before, it can and will be done. If KUP can build Carlyle's motor and have it stand up to 2600+hp then they can build this engine just as well. Josh and I have every bit of confidence in Kurt and Brian that it can be done if attention is payed to detail and the right combination of parts is utilized.
Getting it off the starting line will have the same attention paid to it as the engine and valve-train set-ups do. Transmission will either be a 2spd turbo 400 or a 3spd 400 with 1.86 first gear/1.33 second. Blowers are easier to me in getting to launch under as much power as the track will hold and getting the power in quickly. With being able to turn the timing down with either gear retards, launch retard or time based rev limits retard or a combination of two or all the above....it really allows you a ton of options for achieving this.
10-13-2012, 11:43 AM
#39
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Going fast starts with $$$.
Since Carlyles name was mentioned, that's a $10,000 block.
2 speed th400 is being mentioned. That starts at $5,000.
$15,000 and just two pieces.
Of course low 7's can be accomplished with a procharger and an LSX platform.
Just depends how much cash one wants to spend achieving this goal. Ronnie Duke went into the upper 6's with an F3 Procharger/LSX. Also went 7.4's in the T/A I believe with an F2.
Experienced, proffesional assistance is a must with this type of build.
Since Carlyles name was mentioned, that's a $10,000 block.
2 speed th400 is being mentioned. That starts at $5,000.
$15,000 and just two pieces.
Of course low 7's can be accomplished with a procharger and an LSX platform.
Just depends how much cash one wants to spend achieving this goal. Ronnie Duke went into the upper 6's with an F3 Procharger/LSX. Also went 7.4's in the T/A I believe with an F2.
Experienced, proffesional assistance is a must with this type of build.
10-13-2012, 01:11 PM
#40
Guys, guys, guys....will there be obstacles to overcome during this build? Of course, but there are obstacles to overcome in every build. The only difference here is the magnitude of those obstacles.
Do you think Steve Jackson, Frank Soldrige, Kevin Fiscus and numerous others got to where they are by saying, damn I can't do that because someone told me it's not possible? Hell no they didn't, they found the best people in the industry to help them get it done and show them that it could be done.
After talking with some very knowledgeable people who specifically deal with blowers and who have built engines of this magnitude before, it can and will be done. If KUP can build Carlyle's motor and have it stand up to 2600+hp then they can build this engine just as well. Josh and I have every bit of confidence in Kurt and Brian that it can be done if attention is payed to detail and the right combination of parts is utilized.
.
Do you think Steve Jackson, Frank Soldrige, Kevin Fiscus and numerous others got to where they are by saying, damn I can't do that because someone told me it's not possible? Hell no they didn't, they found the best people in the industry to help them get it done and show them that it could be done.
After talking with some very knowledgeable people who specifically deal with blowers and who have built engines of this magnitude before, it can and will be done. If KUP can build Carlyle's motor and have it stand up to 2600+hp then they can build this engine just as well. Josh and I have every bit of confidence in Kurt and Brian that it can be done if attention is payed to detail and the right combination of parts is utilized.
.
I think you are missing the point in that all of the above cars mentioned either have a BB or twins or both... Either being the smarter choice for this particular application... Just trying to help in the long run when power becomes an issue for keeping up (it will). Not saying its impossible, just saying there is a reason why people go from small blocks to big blocks or choose Twins to begin with.... It makes the most power and sense period. People who win work smarter, not harder. Good luck.