Sloppy Mechanics guide (wire and fire ms1 and MSD6010 LSX)
11-09-2012, 08:11 PM
#1
Sloppy Mechanics guide (wire and fire ms1 and MSD6010 LSX) adding in the downloadlinks for the tunes
MSD 6010 tune file
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/MSD6010-2bar12deg.zip
6010 map for a 2 bar map sensor, and 12deg in boost, about 24 deg at 0boost/vac and 35-40 at cruise and decel.
works great, might wanna lower the total timing to like 8 deg for your own tuning till you know whats safe.
MS1 - 5.3 turbo tune
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/MS1extra_turbo53.zip
this is the turbo 5.3 notchback that runs 9s.
5.3, ls9 cam, ls6 intake, S475 turbo, 80lb injectors. water/meth injection. 110-112 racegas.
Micro2 - 5.3 turbo tune
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/Fai...Micro2_E85.zip
Latest Fairmont Microsquirt 2 V3 tune running fuel and spark reading off the stock crank trigger.
2003 block, 08 pistons and rods, 243/799 heads, ls1 intake, ls9cam, 80lb siemens deka injectors, 80mm turbo. E85 fuel, methanol injection.
**************
note, these are the whole project files zipped, so you just unzip them and drop the folder it creates into your
Documents/tunerstudioprojects/ folder and then when you open tuner studio, you can hit "open project" and select one of these and it will load the dash, tune and other project settings automatically.
i get alot of questions and PM's and people asking about wiring the MS1 and MSD6010 combination i use, so i figured i would do a quick write up they could reference since i did do some videos explaining what do do with it also.
bare with me here i am absent minded at times and i hope the order flows ok and makes some sense, let me know if you can help me revise it or if you see any errors, i threw this together.
hope this helps you guys get started...
Things you will need to install and boost a 4.8/6.0LSX in your swap car on MS1 and MSD6010 minimum.
The way i do it, parts list and guide.
Denmah 11-9-12
first i would say before you consider wiring and tuning and running a car on MS1 and MSD setup watch these quick videos to see what you are getting into, it will help while you read the text later, to see the things i am talking about...
what is megasquirt?
how is megasquirt wired to a car?
how does megasquirt connect to my laptop?
4.8-5.3-6.0 longblock
(thats intake, throttle body to oil pan, coil packs, and pigtails on the wiring if you can get em)
to run the stock ignition you will need this MSD box
320 dollars on summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6010
this reads the stock crank and cam position and fires the factory coils through all the stock connectors and comes with a wiring harness, also! can be programmed with a laptop, and you can add a map sensor for boost timing curve and vacuum cruise curve all at once, there are also timing retard and 2 step options built in, fully user configurable.
this box will run the car without any of that though, you can plug it in and plug in a pill and fire the car with fuel of any kind, propane, gas squirt bottle, etc
also note, this box comes with a 9 pin strait through serial cable, what the MS1 also uses, so you wont need to buy one with the MS1 because you can just swap the cable. saving you some money when you order ms1 stuff.
Megasquirt 1, MS1 $157 dollars - controlling fuel only from the factory sensors
(coolant, inlet air temp, tps, and map sensor reading)
Un assembled 157 dollar kit - you buy this and build it youself, and flash the firmware and then program the box.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...ase-p-128.html
Assembled, flashed, tested, MS1 - $256 dollars
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...unit-p-34.html
if you buy this you can just wire, load a tune and fire the car. when you order it tell them you want the MSNSE code loaded, the EXTRA code, has more options and thats the firmware i use, so if you want to use one of my base tunes you will need this firmware loaded. they ask you what firmware you want when you order it. so make note!
MS1 pre-made 8ft wiring harness - 67 dollars
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/8...ady-p-477.html
this is the wiring harness i use, its long enough to easily get the box in the car, and reach the farthest sensor the coolant on the drivers side, i always pass it through the passenger side firewall and it easily reaches the coolant temp sensor on the other side of the motor, so the rest are easy to connect they are all shorter.
MSD 6010 tune file
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/MSD6010-2bar12deg.zip
6010 map for a 2 bar map sensor, and 12deg in boost, about 24 deg at 0boost/vac and 35-40 at cruise and decel.
works great, might wanna lower the total timing to like 8 deg for your own tuning till you know whats safe.
MS1 - 5.3 turbo tune
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/MS1extra_turbo53.zip
this is the turbo 5.3 notchback that runs 9s.
5.3, ls9 cam, ls6 intake, S475 turbo, 80lb injectors. water/meth injection. 110-112 racegas.
Micro2 - 5.3 turbo tune
http://sloppymechanics.com/tunes/Fai...Micro2_E85.zip
Latest Fairmont Microsquirt 2 V3 tune running fuel and spark reading off the stock crank trigger.
2003 block, 08 pistons and rods, 243/799 heads, ls1 intake, ls9cam, 80lb siemens deka injectors, 80mm turbo. E85 fuel, methanol injection.
**************
note, these are the whole project files zipped, so you just unzip them and drop the folder it creates into your
Documents/tunerstudioprojects/ folder and then when you open tuner studio, you can hit "open project" and select one of these and it will load the dash, tune and other project settings automatically.
i get alot of questions and PM's and people asking about wiring the MS1 and MSD6010 combination i use, so i figured i would do a quick write up they could reference since i did do some videos explaining what do do with it also.
bare with me here i am absent minded at times and i hope the order flows ok and makes some sense, let me know if you can help me revise it or if you see any errors, i threw this together.
hope this helps you guys get started...
Things you will need to install and boost a 4.8/6.0LSX in your swap car on MS1 and MSD6010 minimum.
The way i do it, parts list and guide.
Denmah 11-9-12
first i would say before you consider wiring and tuning and running a car on MS1 and MSD setup watch these quick videos to see what you are getting into, it will help while you read the text later, to see the things i am talking about...
what is megasquirt?
how is megasquirt wired to a car?
how does megasquirt connect to my laptop?
4.8-5.3-6.0 longblock
(thats intake, throttle body to oil pan, coil packs, and pigtails on the wiring if you can get em)
to run the stock ignition you will need this MSD box
320 dollars on summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6010
this reads the stock crank and cam position and fires the factory coils through all the stock connectors and comes with a wiring harness, also! can be programmed with a laptop, and you can add a map sensor for boost timing curve and vacuum cruise curve all at once, there are also timing retard and 2 step options built in, fully user configurable.
this box will run the car without any of that though, you can plug it in and plug in a pill and fire the car with fuel of any kind, propane, gas squirt bottle, etc
also note, this box comes with a 9 pin strait through serial cable, what the MS1 also uses, so you wont need to buy one with the MS1 because you can just swap the cable. saving you some money when you order ms1 stuff.
Megasquirt 1, MS1 $157 dollars - controlling fuel only from the factory sensors
(coolant, inlet air temp, tps, and map sensor reading)
Un assembled 157 dollar kit - you buy this and build it youself, and flash the firmware and then program the box.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...ase-p-128.html
Assembled, flashed, tested, MS1 - $256 dollars
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...unit-p-34.html
if you buy this you can just wire, load a tune and fire the car. when you order it tell them you want the MSNSE code loaded, the EXTRA code, has more options and thats the firmware i use, so if you want to use one of my base tunes you will need this firmware loaded. they ask you what firmware you want when you order it. so make note!
MS1 pre-made 8ft wiring harness - 67 dollars
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/8...ady-p-477.html
this is the wiring harness i use, its long enough to easily get the box in the car, and reach the farthest sensor the coolant on the drivers side, i always pass it through the passenger side firewall and it easily reaches the coolant temp sensor on the other side of the motor, so the rest are easy to connect they are all shorter.
Last edited by denmah; 01-06-2013 at 03:08 PM.
11-09-2012, 08:11 PM
#2
now armed with the motor installed, (too many ways to do this, just get it in there, buy mounts, make them etc, you can get fuel going to the stock rails anyway you want to, it has a regulator built in, will hold 58psi fuel pressure, and return it nicely, we have cars making over 600rwhp through a th400 on the stock regulator and rails so they are pretty damn good!
you can use the stock injectors to get the car running, but they wont be able to support alot of power, you can jam in some other injectors, i use taller siemens deka 80s and we space the rails up with plastic spacers, and longer bolts from the hardware store and they work great. you have to make sure you get injector pigtails that fit your aftermarket injectors if you are going to swap them out, i like ev6 connectors and you can get good ones out of dodge Neons and Volvo T5 sedans, the ford and other ones seem to break easy specially after sitting in the junk yard. if you are using return less you can just buy return rails, i would recommend that, easier, there are other ways to do it but I'm not gunna clog up a base running thread with all that, maybe later.
now to wire this up i would recommend putting a hole into the passenger side firewall away from **** like the headers, heater hoses etc, just make it easy on yourself. make the hole large enough to throw your connector through, for the ms1 and the MSD box, you can completely plug in the MSD box stuff now to all the stock parts of the motor pretty easy everything is labeled.
next up i would say get a fuse panel, here is the one i use that works great, everything you are adding is going to need, fused, switched 12v power, so you might as well make it easy and get a central switched hub, safest and easiest way.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=32322_0_0_
this bad boy right here is like 10 dollars at auto zone, takes regular style fuses and has 6 ports, and a easy post that connects main power.
what you do is hook up a 40amp relay to this pig, and you find a 12v key on or ground key on power source, and you turn the relay on and use a 10-12g wire to this fuse panel, so when you key on everything on this panel gets 12v
now once that is working you get to the rest of this.
take the pink wire going to the MSD box, and crimp on a blue spade, and plug it into the fuse block anywhere and give it a 20 amp fuse, do the same for the megasquirt, but limit it to 3-5 amps (i say that because 2.5 and 3 amps are hard to find sometimes, ive never had a problem running a 5amp) 2 more slots on this fuse panel will need 5 amp runs to the injector power circuts, the injectors are little solenoids that flicker open and closed to adjust the amount of fuel going in. so you will be powering one side of the injector bank, left and right banks, and the megasquirt will be grounding them out inernally to fire them
so you can take all 4 injectors on the drivers side, and take one wire from each injector and connect them all together and then power all 4 wires right to the fuse box, and then take the 4 other wires and connect them all together and join them to the injector driver wires on the MS1 box.
so right now you have 4 things connected
20amp - MSD 6010 box pink wire
5amp - megasquirt 12v switched power RED wire
5amp - whatever color injector bank 1 driver side injector power
5amp - whatever color injector bank 2 pass side injector power
now you will take the coolant, tps, and other wires for the megasquirt and wire them into their respective spots. orange goes to IAT temp and then yellow goes to coolant temp, the other side of the sensor has to goto the black wire with the white stripe, that is the sensor return ground, so connect the ground wire for the TPS, cooland and iat to the black and white wire going back to the MS1.
all the other black wires on the MS1 harness, solid black only, you can bundle them all up and shove them all into a yellow hoop connector and use a self tapper and ground them out in the engine bay, super easy.
at this point you can power on the relay and make sure the sensors are working with the ms1, youll see coolant IAT and throttle position will work too.
if you are going to be doing any tuning at all you should get yourself a wideband and i would highly reccomend the AEM UEGO gauge wideband all in one unit for about 170 dollars from nearly anywhere.
AEM UEGO wideband gauge - $170
this you can also put a blue spade connector on and power it on the fuse panel. the red wire is 12v on. black goes to ground.
using the white wire on this, you can connect it to the pink wire on the MS1 harness, that is the O2 sensor output (white aem harness) to the Pink 02 input on the ms1, this way the MS1 ecu will see oxygen sensor information so you can tune and datalog.
the other spare wires in the ms1 harness like fuel pump relay (purple) fast idle (green) and all the IAC and spark output wires i pull the excess into the car, and clip them with a wire cutter at like 6 inches out of the connector and use the spare wire on other parts of the car or project. (injector wiring, ground wires for the sensors to reach the black and white stripe) etc.
at this point if you found a key 12v on or key ground and have your relay wired up, you can key on, and your msd box, ms1 box, injectors and wideband should get power all at the same time. this is also can be connected to the fuel pump relay to switch that on with the key, and then they should all power off with the flick of the key.
also see the youtube video i did explaining some wiring and how it looks in the car.
now the final thing you need really is to take the yellow wire, on the msd box, that is the tach/rpm signal output wire, and connect that to the megasquirt box so it can see RPM, it will not fire the fuel injectors until it sees the motor spinning.
it gets connected to the white wire, inside the shielded thick wire on the megasquit harness, i always pull these wires into the car and connect them inside the car. IE the O2 sensor, and tach signal and input wires. i pull them out of the harness in the passenger foot well and connect them there, in the car, you can also connect them in the engine bay whatever is easier for you.
now if i were you, i would pull the fuel pump fuse, and key the car on, panel will come on everything will get power.
at this time i would connect to the MSD6010 and load a tune from me, or just plug in one of their supplied pills to start and run the car, Absolutely do not attempt to tune the car in boost with their supplied pills, they have way too much timing in them and you will surely spit a rod or ringland immediately hahaha
now, with the MSD box ready, power going to all things, i would connect back to the Megasquirt 1 box, and hit the starter, however you have it wired, and make sure that if you got 12v key on its also 12v while cranking, or the msd and the ms1 will power off while you crank lol.
in any case, car should crank around 140rpm with the stock starter, and you should see 140rpm on the megasquirt box.
this means the MSD box is connected correctly, and that the MS1 can see the tach signal correctly, this means you are ready to fire the car after one more step.
you need to run a vacuum hose from the intake (behind the throttle body) to the MS1 in the car. washer fluid rubber hose works great.
now you can turn on your fuel pump by replacing the fuse, and try to start the car, start with lower pulse widths first so you don't flood it out, after its running you can go strait to tuning wich is another article, but this covers the basics! i will say you want an 11.0 afr warming up at 40-80deg coolant temp and 12.0 from 80-140 or so, that works best for me, then mild cammed cars while idling hot 160-210 deg like a 13.0 AFR on average, in my experience, happy hunting!
let me know if you find errors and i will edit!
you can use the stock injectors to get the car running, but they wont be able to support alot of power, you can jam in some other injectors, i use taller siemens deka 80s and we space the rails up with plastic spacers, and longer bolts from the hardware store and they work great. you have to make sure you get injector pigtails that fit your aftermarket injectors if you are going to swap them out, i like ev6 connectors and you can get good ones out of dodge Neons and Volvo T5 sedans, the ford and other ones seem to break easy specially after sitting in the junk yard. if you are using return less you can just buy return rails, i would recommend that, easier, there are other ways to do it but I'm not gunna clog up a base running thread with all that, maybe later.
now to wire this up i would recommend putting a hole into the passenger side firewall away from **** like the headers, heater hoses etc, just make it easy on yourself. make the hole large enough to throw your connector through, for the ms1 and the MSD box, you can completely plug in the MSD box stuff now to all the stock parts of the motor pretty easy everything is labeled.
next up i would say get a fuse panel, here is the one i use that works great, everything you are adding is going to need, fused, switched 12v power, so you might as well make it easy and get a central switched hub, safest and easiest way.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=32322_0_0_
this bad boy right here is like 10 dollars at auto zone, takes regular style fuses and has 6 ports, and a easy post that connects main power.
what you do is hook up a 40amp relay to this pig, and you find a 12v key on or ground key on power source, and you turn the relay on and use a 10-12g wire to this fuse panel, so when you key on everything on this panel gets 12v
now once that is working you get to the rest of this.
take the pink wire going to the MSD box, and crimp on a blue spade, and plug it into the fuse block anywhere and give it a 20 amp fuse, do the same for the megasquirt, but limit it to 3-5 amps (i say that because 2.5 and 3 amps are hard to find sometimes, ive never had a problem running a 5amp) 2 more slots on this fuse panel will need 5 amp runs to the injector power circuts, the injectors are little solenoids that flicker open and closed to adjust the amount of fuel going in. so you will be powering one side of the injector bank, left and right banks, and the megasquirt will be grounding them out inernally to fire them
so you can take all 4 injectors on the drivers side, and take one wire from each injector and connect them all together and then power all 4 wires right to the fuse box, and then take the 4 other wires and connect them all together and join them to the injector driver wires on the MS1 box.
so right now you have 4 things connected
20amp - MSD 6010 box pink wire
5amp - megasquirt 12v switched power RED wire
5amp - whatever color injector bank 1 driver side injector power
5amp - whatever color injector bank 2 pass side injector power
now you will take the coolant, tps, and other wires for the megasquirt and wire them into their respective spots. orange goes to IAT temp and then yellow goes to coolant temp, the other side of the sensor has to goto the black wire with the white stripe, that is the sensor return ground, so connect the ground wire for the TPS, cooland and iat to the black and white wire going back to the MS1.
all the other black wires on the MS1 harness, solid black only, you can bundle them all up and shove them all into a yellow hoop connector and use a self tapper and ground them out in the engine bay, super easy.
at this point you can power on the relay and make sure the sensors are working with the ms1, youll see coolant IAT and throttle position will work too.
if you are going to be doing any tuning at all you should get yourself a wideband and i would highly reccomend the AEM UEGO gauge wideband all in one unit for about 170 dollars from nearly anywhere.
AEM UEGO wideband gauge - $170
this you can also put a blue spade connector on and power it on the fuse panel. the red wire is 12v on. black goes to ground.
using the white wire on this, you can connect it to the pink wire on the MS1 harness, that is the O2 sensor output (white aem harness) to the Pink 02 input on the ms1, this way the MS1 ecu will see oxygen sensor information so you can tune and datalog.
the other spare wires in the ms1 harness like fuel pump relay (purple) fast idle (green) and all the IAC and spark output wires i pull the excess into the car, and clip them with a wire cutter at like 6 inches out of the connector and use the spare wire on other parts of the car or project. (injector wiring, ground wires for the sensors to reach the black and white stripe) etc.
at this point if you found a key 12v on or key ground and have your relay wired up, you can key on, and your msd box, ms1 box, injectors and wideband should get power all at the same time. this is also can be connected to the fuel pump relay to switch that on with the key, and then they should all power off with the flick of the key.
also see the youtube video i did explaining some wiring and how it looks in the car.
now the final thing you need really is to take the yellow wire, on the msd box, that is the tach/rpm signal output wire, and connect that to the megasquirt box so it can see RPM, it will not fire the fuel injectors until it sees the motor spinning.
it gets connected to the white wire, inside the shielded thick wire on the megasquit harness, i always pull these wires into the car and connect them inside the car. IE the O2 sensor, and tach signal and input wires. i pull them out of the harness in the passenger foot well and connect them there, in the car, you can also connect them in the engine bay whatever is easier for you.
now if i were you, i would pull the fuel pump fuse, and key the car on, panel will come on everything will get power.
at this time i would connect to the MSD6010 and load a tune from me, or just plug in one of their supplied pills to start and run the car, Absolutely do not attempt to tune the car in boost with their supplied pills, they have way too much timing in them and you will surely spit a rod or ringland immediately hahaha
now, with the MSD box ready, power going to all things, i would connect back to the Megasquirt 1 box, and hit the starter, however you have it wired, and make sure that if you got 12v key on its also 12v while cranking, or the msd and the ms1 will power off while you crank lol.
in any case, car should crank around 140rpm with the stock starter, and you should see 140rpm on the megasquirt box.
this means the MSD box is connected correctly, and that the MS1 can see the tach signal correctly, this means you are ready to fire the car after one more step.
you need to run a vacuum hose from the intake (behind the throttle body) to the MS1 in the car. washer fluid rubber hose works great.
now you can turn on your fuel pump by replacing the fuse, and try to start the car, start with lower pulse widths first so you don't flood it out, after its running you can go strait to tuning wich is another article, but this covers the basics! i will say you want an 11.0 afr warming up at 40-80deg coolant temp and 12.0 from 80-140 or so, that works best for me, then mild cammed cars while idling hot 160-210 deg like a 13.0 AFR on average, in my experience, happy hunting!
let me know if you find errors and i will edit!
11-09-2012, 10:43 PM
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Nice Matt. Very detailed. You have tought me alot. And it was all free haha. I belive we will start to see a lot of guys that wanted to do a build like this but was nervous to attempt it. Including myself But with your help and write ups they can get it done Thanks a million
Last edited by red 95 t/a; 11-09-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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11-10-2012, 11:29 AM
#10
Got me hooked on Megasquirt. I think I will go with a MS3 and MS3X setup to be able to control the coils, plus have sequential injection as opposed to batch. Still under $600 for everything and with the VE analyzer Live it can clean up a tune and should make tuning much easier. Thanks for posting this up, it made the decision far easier as much of the info surrounding Megasquirt is so vague.
11-11-2012, 10:00 AM
#15
While not quite as cheap at $257 it looks like the MS2 is a decent upgrade. Get some additional features like the target AFR table and such.
The MS3 looks really cool but is significantly more money. But at that point could you control the spark rather than having to get the MSD box and end up with about the same money but more features? Not sure if they are able to run off the factory reluctor wheel, but if they could that would be a great solution with just a bit more wiring.
The MS3 looks really cool but is significantly more money. But at that point could you control the spark rather than having to get the MSD box and end up with about the same money but more features? Not sure if they are able to run off the factory reluctor wheel, but if they could that would be a great solution with just a bit more wiring.
11-11-2012, 12:39 PM
#16
While not quite as cheap at $257 it looks like the MS2 is a decent upgrade. Get some additional features like the target AFR table and such.
The MS3 looks really cool but is significantly more money. But at that point could you control the spark rather than having to get the MSD box and end up with about the same money but more features? Not sure if they are able to run off the factory reluctor wheel, but if they could that would be a great solution with just a bit more wiring.
The MS3 looks really cool but is significantly more money. But at that point could you control the spark rather than having to get the MSD box and end up with about the same money but more features? Not sure if they are able to run off the factory reluctor wheel, but if they could that would be a great solution with just a bit more wiring.
i also use the program tuner studio, and you can set that up to "autotune" as you drive.
if you want to go MS2 you might as well do the microsquirt waste spark thing we are trying to perfect.
11-11-2012, 01:54 PM
#17
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I know you still have more testing to do on the microsquirt, but does it lôok like there is any real down side to the microsquirt vs the megasquirt/msd setup? Mainly in a mild turbo 5.3 street car? For the money it seems like a no brainer, but there's gotta be some kind of downside......
Thanks again for the videos!
Thanks again for the videos!
11-11-2012, 07:46 PM
#19
so would you suggest someone who is a month or so from running to just keep an eye on the micro squirt development.
ive already bought a stand alone harness and camaro 0411 pcm and planned on using HP tuners but im sure i could sell it....
IN THE INTEREST OF SHARING INFO- YOU CAN GET THE MSD 6010 FROM ADVANCED AUTO PARTS FOR $272 USING DISCOUNT CODE P20
11-11-2012, 09:08 PM
#20
ill have my pistons tuesday and even if i dont get much done ill be running again by the weekend and ill get on the dyno next week, also putting a the glide in the sunbird this weekend with any luck and getting that on the rollers, ill have alot of results in a months time on this harness.
but its looking really good.
but its looking really good.