2001transamws6

So i just got a used STS Turbo System and after running the car i aparently didn't have enough breathing for the motor and the car broke down and lost oil pressure for alittle and the car didn't want to start after with the turbo hooked up and now the turbo is letting oil run past the impeller on the exhaust side!!!

So i need to know if i should rebuild this turbo that comes with these kits or if i should upgrade and the cost difference between the 2. I don't have alot of money, but i do want to do things right! The sts oil was running the whole time and still runs, but i may consider running a better oil pump like turbowerx...what do y'all suggest and i need to know of good places to find this stuff so i can look at prices. I have heard of people upgrading to gt67 turbo and would like to know how that worked out for y'all that went that route. Thanks!

2001transamws6

Do any of y'all have any suggestions? What could i upgrade with? Who makes the gt67 or who makes some upgraded turbos that would bolt up to my sts setup?

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

for sure, get a better turbo, get a better oil pump, and make sure you get an intercooler if you havnt got one with the kit. can we get some pics of the current setup?

Not sure what you mean how it broke down or isn't getting enough air, but if theres abunch of oil in the intake, your sucking up oil and loosing power and potentially damaging your engine.

for the turbo, id recommend at least a T70 with .81 to start if you want a quick spooling street turbo. IF you want alittle more, a T76 .96 like the one I got form On3 damn near seems like it was made to be a rear mount turbo. ON3 is a sponsor on here that are trying to get into the LS market with their new front mount system that's getting a lot of support. Still going thru growing pains but if you want a pretty affordable turbo but don't want to get complete questionable china crap, ON3 is pretty good. Not the "BEST" as a lot of people get all worked up about, but very decent. im sure a garret, holset, precsion, or what have ya, might be more efficient and have better warrentys, but for the price of one of those you can get 2 BB's trubos from ON3 if your on a budget.

Get at least a cheap new "ebay" pump just to make sure to get everything up and running. then save up for a turbowerx xtra-pump when you can. from what Ive heard and read, this pump will keep you pipe pretty clean.

Also make sure you have a one-way check valve on the oil inlet side of the turbo about 6-10" prior to feeding and then possibly if your still getting a lot of oil on the exhaust side, another check valve after the scavenger just to make sure during long sits.
Also, make sure to wire in the scavenger to prime and to switch on at the same time as your fuel pump, which I hope you have at least gotten a racetronix pump and hotwire kit.

After that your pretty much just need to make sure you tighten everything up and get a good tune. Id also later look into water/meth to help protect and run better after 6ish PSI. Just in case.

dude, ive done a budget build, but it still gonna cost you here and there. I did a whole fabricated build that im still fine tuning. not sure if you've done any reading, but you should take a lot at "ZombieSS" "ZL1Killer" "HRHohio" and myself, and a few others that have done quite a bit. We've got tons of pics and suggestions to help you out with.
Im not gonna be one of those guys that say do a search lol not that kind of person, but I do recommend you take a look at those threads. lots of good pics and sugestions, way more then I could tell you here.

hope ive helped more then ive made more questions lol

2001transamws6

I really appreciate the response and i have read ZL1killer whole sts build thread but most pictures didn't show up.

My motor has crapped out because i didn't vent the valve covers enough. It over pressurised the crankcase and i have started to do a compression check and i have 0psi on the 1st cyl on the driver side and on the 3rd one back i only have 60psi. I have a great tuner and this happend right after we were street tuning it and had just gotton it dialed in. I have a Racetronics fuel pump, 42lb injector, and am running a 2 bar map sensor. I also have the 8lb waste gate spring and the 2 bar map sensor was showing 8.7psi during tuning.

So i am questioning this turbo since i got some oil past the exhaust turbine and money is tight, but i want to do things right. So i'm trying to deside to rebuild the turbo vs the cost of upgrading the turbo. I think that ZL1killer did a gt67 upgrade, but i don't know who makes that turbo and am a newbie when it comes to what turbo certain turbo specs mean like when you say .81 or .96. I don't know what all of that means.

This car is s daily driver and i don't mean that lightly...14k miles in the past year. I have to get this turbo working good and putting out quick spooling no hassel power and i am looking for a new short block that is ls1, ls2, 6.0,or a 5.3. I'm trying to get all of this done and done right, but i can't break the bank on it.

ALL HELP IS MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

trust me, im all about daily driver. if I cant install what I need to in a weekend of in the time I have, I don't put it on until I can. so my turbo build took me damn near 3 long years, especially with parts acquiring lol So I wont even tell you to drop off your car for a few weeks. im still fighting my tune shop to get me in on one of my days off to finalize my tune.

Ill try to touch on key points and others im sure will help chime in eventually lol

not sure how you got that much pressure in there with only 8psi but im assuming you had the sts version of the PCV system that ive heard is crap. You need to get ride of it for simplicity sake and more efficiency sake and run a vent line from the passenger side valve cover to the inlet side of the turbo to create a vaccum source at all times along with a catch can utilizing an LS6 valley cover with a vent tube on it to help vent most of the pressure during heavy boost and normal driving. I have on my build tread a diagram of it.

glad to hear you got the fuel portion setup form the get go. that will relieve the incoming flaming that usually comes with a "I hurt my motor" thread. id recommend you get some 60lbs later so you can better utilize higher psi and more HP.
Im also very glad that you have a 2bar MAP in there. are you running MAF as well or Speed Dencity?

im not sure how much oil your leaking past the exhaust but it happens with us. what you need is a good oil pump first before you spend a bunch on a turbo. your turbo might be getting more oil then it needs and the pump can t get rid of it fast enough.

Also what are you running for a restrictor on the oil feed? regardless of what people say, even us journal bearing turbos need a restrictor on REAR MOUNTS. I started with a .080 and went down to a .040 restricted oil inlet flange cause my 4an feed line was still giving the turbo too much oil. I still get alittle when the car sits for long amounts of time and with the nose pointing up hill. try to park nose down if you can so the rear doesn't see any residual oil if you can.

I also say hold off on the turbo because you dotn know what block your gonna get. theres a large difference between a 346ci engine and a 364ci engine and they will need different sized turbos for different styles of driving. id still say that a T76 would be a great size, but might be a tad large if you get a 5.3 motor.

and to my more basic explanations and refresher on turbos lol

Ill use my turbo as an example. when I say T76 with .96 AR heres what im saying.
the turbo has two sides (duh lol)
COMPRESSOR (cold side)
TURBINE (hot side)
usually a lot of companys use the size of the compressor as the name of the turbo to let oyu know how big roughly it is so
A T76 = 76mm.... now don't use this as a means to base all turbos cause theres more to it then just that like inducer and exducer.... for now ill just keep it simple

when I say .96 AR, that's the size of the housing itself or the AREA RATIO. Like for my T76 the compressor side is .80 AR and the turbine is .96 AR. generally unless we got a 500ci motor motivating the turbo we stick to .81-.96 turbine AR's for spool. anything larger and lag starts to take the fun out of having a street turbo car, unless of course you like your RPMS in the stratosphere like a rotary motor. don't get too concerned about that parts as how big the turbine wheel is. Now don't get me wrong there is more to it then the AR to control spool, but its a guideline for us rear mounts. theres just only some many sized turbine wheels you can fit in them so that's why we generalize this part. most of the time they are in the 65mm-70mm range while custom high-end brand can make almost anything you want.... for a price of course.
for more help or clarification just look up garret turbo 101. it has more technical points on turbos to help get you up to speed.

Yeah, a lot of the others builds are older so their pictures are either starting to fall off, or their photosharing accounts are getting old lol
I have some pics on mine that can help you get you to where you need to be and has a lot of other people on there that have been helping me out since the beginning.

first and formost you gotta get that engine fixed. then we can talk what turbo to pick.

Ill make a very broad recommendation but its just that of what ive done, seen, and heard.
5.3- T67-T72
its a smaller motor, not by much, but still will respond better with a tad smaller motor, but you could get away with a T76, but you would have to keep the turbine AR small, and unfortunately would be choking the motor up top while still possibly not getting the ful potential of the 76mm cause you wont be able to spin it fast enough thus loosing your efficiency. We rear mounts are ALL about efficiency since we are already got one strict against us
LS1-T70-T76
All these would be good, so as long as you keep the turbine side in check. to big and spool will be an issue. again, keep it under .96 AR. A T70 will spool great while the T76 will give you more up top while sacrificing some lowend spool. since we have V8s, not spooling instantly isn't that big of a deal since tractions already an issue. I break loose going into second and I have a full UMI suspension going on and scares the crap out of me lol

LS2-6.0 T72-T80ish
Lots of air requires more room and places to put it. Id recommend getting a larger motor if you could just on the pure fact that youll have more base power to build on. less need to push more boost and more longevity on parts. This does have a down fall and that is money. youll need money for the larger motor and the larger turbo. A T76 would be great on these and a T88 would be a beast but youll be looking into the higher end of horsepower numbers which equals more money. Only go this route if you got the cash to play. youll have to upgrade you fuel system for this route as well as other things like drivetrain. As said in a movie, "If you have the means, I highly recommend you get one"

few other Qs'
Whats your desired HP
What trans/ stalled?
What axle and gears
Whats current mods
and we needs some pics son! lol

and for more help....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ng-anyway.html

2001transamws6

few other Qs'
Whats your desired HP about 500rwhp or maybe plus some. It really need to be over 600rwhp. I want to run low 11s and maybe break into 10s at the track.

What trans/ stalled? I have a stock 6 speed trans with a Monster Stage 2 clutch with the lighter weight 18lb billet steel flywheel.

What axle and gears? I have the stock 10 bolt rear end with stock 3.42s. I know that this will is my next week point and it will be addressed after the motor/turbo build. I won't do any hard digs or boosted clutch dumps so that i can make it last. I am also not going with any more grip that the 315/35/17 Nitto 555s that i am running.

Whats current mods? The motor is all stock other than the sts kit. This kit that i bought only cost me $1500 and that is why i sold my bolt ons and went this route instead of a cam swap. As a bolt on and tune only car it put out 370rwhp and 377rwtq, but i was ready for more.

and we needs some pics son! I will wor on some pics for sure! Lol

So i wasn't running the sts pcv crap...how i had it hooked is the line that needs vaccume from the waste gate and bov was both run together and put in the side of the intake behind the throttle body where the factory pcv was at. I took out the factory pcv and put a breather filter on that line...think that since it came from both of the backs of each valve covers that it would vent bolth, but it didn't work obviously. Hopefully that kinda answers your question on that and you can probably tell me more about what i did wrong.

I am also running speed density.

On the oil coming out of the turbo, i am wondering if it had been getting over pressurized...i'm not so sure that there is a restriction in the line. I need to look over my oiling system really good and look for a restriction and for check valves. I'm sure at this point that this turbo needs to be inspected and seviced...so i want toake sure that the oiling is right and then look at a better turbo that i can afford.

Thanks for the extra turbo explanations. Who makes good replacement turbos like the t67 and t70 turbo that you talked about? I deffinately like quick spooling and don't want to have to rev super high to get into peak power and boost. I will let y'all know what i do motor wise.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

~ if you want 600RWHP your gonna have to up the injectors to at least 60lbs to support that kind of hustle. Although I havnt done it myself yet but ive heard of people putting low 600hp on racetronix pumps. as long as you have a hotwire kit and a safe tune you should be able to do it, but you would be pushing it at that point.

~good to know, with that M6, make sure you have you Rev's in check so as not to over speed the engine.

~Don't worry so much about the 10 bolt. still got mine withy 2.73 gears. Don't get shorter gears (IE 3.73 or higher) this will cause more lag. the longer gears put more load on the turbo and spool quicker especially for rear mounts. As long as you do as you say and not dump your clutch and launch you car like your at the strip at every stop light, youll be alright. plus, you wont get all 600hp right away so that's not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. It will be a delicate balance though since you do have 315s on the there. I do too so it can be done.

~ Stock motor here too but I do have a few upgrades bolted to it like ls6 intake and LT headers (don't do this if you havnt yet) keep you manifolds. better heat retention. it not the end of the world if you have, but you will spool better so I hear lol I wrapped my LT headers as high as I could reach. helped a ton.

and we needs some pics son! I will wor on some pics for sure! Lol
~ LETS GO!! lol



~ok, the vac/boost source is... ok for the wategate and BOV but id put it at the booster line myself for a more secure and less turbulent signal but that part is ok. NOw I think I see where you did go slightly wrong, you didn't have anything pulling any pressure out of your crankcase. The venting to atmosphere was ok for old school 350s and guys that like messes in their engine compartment, but for positive crack case vacuum, you need to hook up a line from the valve cover to the inlet side of turbo to create a constant vacuum source. heres a few diagrams that I used that works great. oh, and you need a catch can.


no mind you this is using the ls6 valley cover that has the tube coming up under the intake which is a much better way to go, but you can go straight LS1 make sure you block the two rear most valve cover ports and then use the front passenger side to source a vaccum through the catch can. theres a picture somewhere with a strictly LS1 routing.

I am also running speed density.
Good, did you get the light tuned off? lol my tuner doesn't believe me that it can be turned off even if the codes still there.

~you most lightly don't have a restrictor and probably getting more oil then it needs, resulting in over oiling your turbo. Check valve at least the feed side near the turbo to keep oil form seeping in the turbo when not on. make sure its flowing with the oil and has a light cracking pressure like 4psi. Summit make a nice one with AN ends on it.


~No prob. pretty much anyone makes good replacements lol
ON3, Garret, Precision, turbonetics, Comp turbo... to name a few. the more affordable being ON3 of course. I hear their BB T67 turbos spool damn good and are REALLY affordable.

2001transamws6

Well, my car does already have the ls6 intake manifold and this kit came with factory exhaust manifolds that have the a.i.r. deleted so that is done. Also this kit came with a custom y pipe that goes from the exhaust manifolds and goes to the sts kit pipe. the y pipe has no cats and the whole y pipe and the rest of the pipe back to the turbo is heat wrapped.

I have a very good tuner over here in East Texas and yes the maf code is turned off.

It appears that I do have a check valve just before the oil goes into the turbo and there is a restriction (not sure what size) where the stainless oil feed line hooks up to the turbo at. I don't see a check valve in the oil return line tho, and my oil return line is hooked up to the port that you spoke about towards the front of the passenger side valve cover. So I am thinking that when everything pressurized that it forced oil back towards the turbo and it came past the turbo's seals. Also when all of this happended, I lost oil pressure to the motor and I killed the motor and pulled off of the road as soon as I saw that.

I got a good bit of the motor tore down, but haven't gotton the driver head off yet where I know that I have 2 bad cylinders. I should have that pulled tonight so that I can see the damage.

I have my eyes on a forged lq4 408! I bet that would be fun with a t76 and .96 ar. I am waiting to see what the damage is tho before I make any decisions. I need to start researching these different turbo brands because it does look like I will need to upgrade regardless. the sts 60mm is a bit small.

I have read and heard of soooo many different ways to vent and breathe the valve covers now and the rest of the motor. lol I think that I should move the bov and waste gate to the brake booster like you mentioned. That hose from the intake to the cold side of the turbo sounds like a good idea too. there is a fitting on the cold side of the turbo housing itself, but it is capped off by a previous owner of the kit.

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

Well, my car does already have the ls6 intake manifold and this kit came with factory exhaust manifolds that have the a.i.r. deleted so that is done. Also this kit came with a custom y pipe that goes from the exhaust manifolds and goes to the sts kit pipe. the y pipe has no cats and the whole y pipe and the rest of the pipe back to the turbo is heat wrapped.
~ Nice, good to know you've been studying and reading up on things to do. When I saw LS6, im referring to the valley cover UNDER the intake manifold. LS1,s are flat with no PCV tube while the LS6 valley cover does, making hooking up the catch can easier.

I have a very good tuner over here in East Texas and yes the maf code is turned off.
~Sweet, maybe your tuner can talk to my tuner and edumacate this idiot lol

It appears that I do have a check valve just before the oil goes into the turbo and there is a restriction (not sure what size) where the stainless oil feed line hooks up to the turbo at. I don't see a check valve in the oil return line tho, and my oil return line is hooked up to the port that you spoke about towards the front of the passenger side valve cover. So I am thinking that when everything pressurized that it forced oil back towards the turbo and it came past the turbo's seals. Also when all of this happended, I lost oil pressure to the motor and I killed the motor and pulled off of the road as soon as I saw that.
~Now just to make sure, im referring to PRE turbo inlet to apply a vacuum. NOT the fitting on the compressor housing. all that will do is introduce pressure into your crank case again, which we both know is bad
Yeah, you definitely had something hooked up wrong that over pressured the crank. im also wondering if your oil pump might have crapped out on you since us LS1's have weaker oil pumps. Also, for heads up, if you up grade to an LS6 oil pump nows a good time to do it if you stick to a cathedral LS motor. I HIGHLY recommend the PCV setup I posted. it works

I got a good bit of the motor tore down, but haven't gotton the driver head off yet where I know that I have 2 bad cylinders. I should have that pulled tonight so that I can see the damage.
~Damn shame. at least you get to put better pieces in it now from the ground up

I have my eyes on a forged lq4 408! I bet that would be fun with a t76 and .96 ar. I am waiting to see what the damage is tho before I make any decisions. I need to start researching these different turbo brands because it does look like I will need to upgrade regardless. the sts 60mm is a bit small.
~NICE, if you can get that, that would be bad ***! and that T76 would be a GREAT street turbo for that motor. And ye, the 60mm is too small, even for the LS1. In stock STS form, it actually creats a lot of heat from being a restriction and IATs go up quick and are a major flow restriction in general. STS uses them for low cost and to avoid spool lag. You can tell STS has been slowly getting better since they now recommend an Intercooler, meth, larger turbo and upgraded fuel system, where as before it was "oh, you don't need that"

I have read and heard of soooo many different ways to vent and breathe the valve covers now and the rest of the motor. lol I think that I should move the bov and waste gate to the brake booster like you mentioned. That hose from the intake to the cold side of the turbo sounds like a good idea too. there is a fitting on the cold side of the turbo housing itself, but it is capped off by a previous owner of the kit.
~do the above, it wont steer you wrong and relatively cheap. Definitly a good idea to move the BOV and wastegate to the brake booster line. Remember, hook up the fresh air vacuum source for the breather to the inlet side of the compressor PRIOR to going in the turbo. not after or you will get boost in the PCV. Also a simple GM check valve on the oulet side of the catch can prior to going back into the intake manifold will keep boost form going back into the engine if you use an LS6 valley cover.

2001transamws6

So it looks like my motor saw detonation and high heat...so long story short i'm going to get a different motor and sell my motor and heads.

So i'm looking at a forged 408 bottom end and then maybe some 243/799 heads. I need to add a better turbo, injectors, oil return pump, and add an intercooler! I will be between 9.0.1-9.5.1 compression. I don't need to make max power...just spool quick and not bog the 408 motor. It is a daily driver!!!

I need help as to what i should get and where to find a good deal on it.

What size Turbo? I'm thinking t76 .96ar

What brand turbo? Nothing that will break or break the bank

What size Injectors? I'm thinkin around 60lb

What intercooler should i go with?

What oil return pump? Turbowerx?

Please help me out and leave some comments. Thanks in advance!

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

~if you want that low of compression, you need 317 heads to get it done. the 243/799 will up your CR, but if you don't want max effort, you can get away with a normal LS1 ratio of 10:1 CR and keep your lowend and save some gas lol youll just have to keep your boost level to moderate. so no 20psi lol a lot of guys are getting 500+ hp with stock LS1s and a motor with really good tunes and water/meth.

What size Turbo? I'm thinking t76 .96ar
~YES, with that size of motor and even with a stock LS1 it will spool just fine with heat retention techniques and build a nice torque curve and if you get a cam later, it will be able to take advantage of a larger turbo.


What brand turbo? Nothing that will break or break the bank
~ Ill say it again, and they are sponsors on here, ON3 turbos are a good start. Get a Ball bearing if you can swing it, but a journal bearing will do fine too. you can get the expensive name brands but if your on a tight budget, ON3 can get you there.

What size Injectors? I'm thinkin around 60lb
~At least! with your moderate goals, you should be good with a set of 60lbs Siemens injectors. if you want to up it later, 80lbs injectors for anything over 600HP

What intercooler should i go with?
~the biggest you can get lol in all seriousness, at least a 31x11x3" intercooler. I and may others have used ebay intercoolers that have worked quite well. mine is a EMUSA 31x12x3. fits right in the bumper with some slight modifications.

What oil return pump? Turbowerx?
~pretty much the best, but the cheapys on ebay work for awhile. they are gear oil pumps so they wont degrade as a diaphragm would. for the oil system, get AN lines with AN couplers. most secure and look good to boot a bit of a pain to get on the hoses but well worth it and virtually leak free.
4an for feed and 10an for drain. to alleviate the oil pumps long journey, return the oil to the pan. less routing, more efficient and cleaner look.

ALSO and I highly recommend these pieces on the oil portion, I found a 4an 90degree tube that keeps the clearance tight against the top of the turbo and the an oil return block with a 10an fitting point out the side instead of down and the turning. its up tight and clearance is a breeze!

2001transamws6

I forgot to mention that the pistons are -28cc Diamond IBF Boost Pistons. That is why it takes those heads to bump up compression. The motor has a Futral Motorsports F10 cam 228/228 .576/.576 112lsa

I just want to make sure that i don't put too small of a turbo on it for the size and choke it down, but i don't want much lag at all and am not building for 700+rwhp like the forged 408 can handle. 600rwhp is plenty and if the hp number goes over that some then that is ok. I just want a fast and reliable daily driver.

What water/meth kits do y'all use?

JoshuaGrooms83

iTrader: (2)

oh damn! lol your starting out right out the get go lol
so a 408, with -28cc pistons, and a 228/228 cam.... some 243/799s definitely would need to be used just so you don't have a dog down low. A T76 would be a good start but some more experienced turbo guys im sure could steer you in the right direction as well.

as for the water meth, snow performance is a good start. AEM is ok but their controllers are finicky. the better brands are up there in price so unless you get them used, they probably aren't in your budget at this present time but if you desire, Aylkicontrol (im sure im spelling it wrong) is a good product that a lot of people swear by.

2001transamws6

Yeah, i'm trying to do this once and do it right!

I think that i will skip the meth kit and do a intercooler so that i don't have to refill stuff. I have been searching Ebay.

I really appreciate you responses and hope that some others will chime in!

I really need some turbo suggestions for quick spooling fun on the street that won't bog the motor down either. Like i have said...fast street car and not a max effort build. The short block can handle 1000rwhp, but i'm not ready for all that...yet.