stevieturbo

Perhaps, but the 300lph 044 isnt suddenly going to become a 600lph pump just by pumping fuel into it.

In this instance the 044 would become a restriction.

There is no valid or sensible reason to not do the job properly. Adding a pump inline is completely the wrong way to go about things.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

In your opinion you mean?


With the 044 turned on it is not a restriction. With it off, It’s no more restrictive than a 3/8 hardline. Which is plenty for cruising around and idle. With enough pressure a 3/8th hardline support the same amount of power as a ½ line running “normal” pressures.

I and many others have done it. This isn’t an experiment or a theory. It’s common place knowledge. You are expressing an opinion because you have no experience with this subject. I’m all for you having your own opinion, but state it as so. Don’t instruct others on a subject you have no experience with and tell them this method is “wrong”.

If you are trying to push a smaller injector and require a large amount of pressure putting a pump inline makes perfect sense. An 800cc injector at 43psi will flow 978cc @ 65 psi.

I would suggest instead of running 2 intank pumps to one inline ”pusher”, run each intank to it’s own inline. (255 inline pumps are cheaper) Even the walbro 450 isn’t going to flow enough for big power at 90+psi. Compounding the pressure is the way to go. I’d be curious to “T” into the line between the intank and the inline pump and see how much pressure is actually feeding the “pusher” pump.

One reason people aren’t dropping 2 450 walbros in the tank is because of packaging and ease of installation. I literally dropped an 044 in place of the oem fuel filter and hade everything done and wired in an hour. Trying to wedge 2 450’s in an OEM hangar and stuffing them in the tank isn’t an hour project.

Preston99WS6

iTrader: (7)

^ this would work only you would have to have the pumps seperate until after the 044's they you could use a AN8 Y to bring it back to one line. Run one series like normal, trigger the second series off of a hobbs switch at 5psi. Probably would gain another 150 lph, but it would be cheaper to just drop another 255 in the tank.

stevieturbo

You can argue and try and justify it however you want. But it is still a stupid way to go about improving the fuel system. That isn't opinion, that is fact.

Just because lots of people as you suggest are doing it does not change that fact. Lots of people do stupid things too.

2 wrongs don't make a right

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

It’s not a fact. You haven’t listed one fact yet. You think you understand the principle but obviously do not.

Is compound turbo charging stupid as well? According to your theory, Compound turbo charging can’t possibly work. If what your saying is true about the fuel pumps the same would apply to a compound turbo setup. Your saying the turbos would have to be run in parallel to get any flow out of them.

Air enters the low-pressure turbo (big one) (just like the 2 intank pumps) and is then fed into the high-pressure turbo (small one) (same as the inline 044), then directed into the engine. According to your incorrect theory the small turbo would be a massive restriction and not make power.

This is just a different way to get additional fuel. Nothing wrong about it.

snapc3

You are correct, but not perhaps. Like I said the 044 will flow what it is rated at the reduced working pressure.

The real argument here is if the 044 will flow more at the reduced pressure than the twin 255's, and depending on the systems pressure I don't believe it will.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

You’d need to know how much pressure is being supplied pre-booster pump. The 255’s don’t flow well at higher pressures. We were running around 96psi of total fuel pressure once you figure in boost. According to the chart above you’d be under 100lph at 100psi per pump with the 255 at 13.8v.

Adding an 044 inline to my TT supra pump dropped my DC at the injectors considerably. That alone proves it works. As to the exact amount of increase I couldn’t tell you. At 34psi I was maxing out my 1000cc injectors with e50. Tossing on the 044 inline allowed me to drop DC into the upper 90’s running e85.

As I said took less than a hour to wire it up. And I didn’t have to buy larger injectors, change over to dual intank pumps, or run larger fuel lines. For my specific application additional pressure was a quick and easy fix. I’m not claiming this is the be-all end-all bada$$ fuel system. Just that it works and there is nothing wrong or incorrect about this method.

stevieturbo

Just because you either choose not to believe or understand doesnt make the facts unreal.

And as for comparing to turbo compound charging, this would also indicate you do not understand.
So like a turbo setup are you looking to achieve a pressure increase of 2-3-4x normal working pressure ? I rather doubt it, as there would be very few applications where you would need say 100-200psi of fuel pressure.
People compound charge for pressure reasons alone.

If you run 2 x 1000hp capable turbos in parallel you have 2000hp of flow.
Run them compound, ie in series and you have nowhere near 2000hp of flow. That is fact. One unit will ultimately become the restriction.

And yes it is a different way of getting fuel. A stupid different way, but it is a way.

You are looking to complicate something very simple. That just makes no sense.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Yes. I do run close to 100psi of fuel pressure in several of my builds. This is very common when you are running 35+psi of boost on smaller engines. I believe skinnies on this forum also runs damn near 100psi of fuel pressure on his 5.3LS setup to push his 80lb injectors far enough to squeak 900+whp out of E85.

If you have 2000hp worth of flow and 1000 hp worth of injectors you aren't going to make any more power. You need additional pressure. Or if you have 2000hp worth of pump and fuel lines that won't flow 2000hp, you will also need more pressure. Many times this is much more cost effective than upgrading the entire fuel system...to a point anyway.

In my application I think spending $1000 dollars on a massive fuel system would have been stupid when tossing on a $100 pump can allow me to reach my goals. Makes perfect sense to me anyway.

stevieturbo

Then just chuck a couple of Bosch pumps in-tank.

Having the Walbros there is just a waste. The Bosch will easily run 100psi all day long, and still flow plenty doing it.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I agree the 044 is a great pump. Much better than the walbros… but still only around 210lph at 100psi. (per pump at 13.8v) 420lph isn’t stellar for the boosted V8 crowd, but would have been plenty for my application. You then have to figure in cost/labor. Once you factor in the price of 2 044’s. Fabrication and mounting for running duals intank pumps etc, you’ve got a healthy bill and some decent time invested. Then technically to do things "right", you’d need to replace all the fuel lines and run larger injectors.

In my case and many… many… other DSM/EVO guys cases they can make quite a bit more power on the OEM fuel system by simply adding 1 inline pump in about an hour and cranking the fuel pressure up.

I get where your coming from, this is not the best idea for every application and it will only take you so far. However I don’t consider it stupid or senseless as it accomplished my goals with minimal investment/time. In my case and ton of other EVO and DSM guys it is the best option to meet their power goals.

stevieturbo

Even that graph shows a negligible gain when running in series, dropping to almost nothing at the higher pressures, which is where you claimed you wanted gains.

So it makes no sense to do it. Just run an 044 or 2 and be done with it

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I wish that graph showed the series info? It's just showing the jayracing modified 044 pump vs the standard 044 pump.

stevieturbo

Ahh right, when they mention "series" in the name I assumed it was an in series pump test, and that's why you posted it.

Rauq

iTrader: (1)

You're forgetting, though, the same principle works on the inline pump, albeit on the opposite side. It's designed to flow 300lph @ 55psi, the important part is a 55psi pressure differential. If the low pressure side of the pump is any higher than 0psi, it's going to have a flow rate higher than 300lph, similar to how the twin in-tanks flow more when they have a relative vacuum on their high pressure side. It's not going to flow 600lph @ 55psi or 300lph @ 110psi, but you get the idea.