Well I only managed a 9.09 with my stock short block 6 liter, and after reviewing logs looks like oil pump pickup (stock F-body pan/pickup/tray) was uncovering at the hit. Ran a forged 370 (on loan) last friday night stock crank, well prepped L92 heads, aggressive up 240's@.050 cam. Went 8.63@158 on a 1.34 60'. Understand this is primarily a street car, 3500# ALL steel, 4l80e, twin 6262 turbos. My ultimate goal for the car is to run a max effort 7.9x and be able to drive the car coast to coast self supporting and run 8.50 at any 1/4 mile track in the country (our local track is pretty bad so if I can do it there I shouldn't have any problem any where else). I want to put an engine in the car and aside from messing with the tune and changing the oil, not ever have to maintain anything or worry about breaking it. I'm pretty partial to a 388" 6 bolt block build right this moment i.e. 4.125 bore/3.62(5) stroke. Reasons why, more crank bearing journal overlap, less rod angularity (better rod ratio), less piston speed, less cylinder wall thrust, less friction, better piston/ring stability, taller piston crown, less piston skirt scuffing, etc...I currently have Precision 6262 turbos, .81 v-band exhaust, ported S cover compressors. I can drop in 6766 turbos without changing much if anything. My current 62's should make 1300 ish on an engine that size and 67's would put me in the 1500+ capable area. Keep in mind this is NOT a all out race car, it does not and will not have a forward funny car cage (although the rest of the chassis is up to 25.3 specs). I have and will continue to drive the car to my local track (ORP) tulsa, gateway, and mokan (possible many other midwest tracks) on a regular basis and have no desire to trailer the car. I drive it around town 3-4 times a week.

All that said I really feel anything much over 390" is going to be capable of more power than will get utilized. The all so common 427 build is too large and will have back pressure issues with even 6766 turbos.

Although I don't want to spend a **** ton of money on(unnecessary upgrades) I do want a put it in and forget about breaking it combination. Therefore I really feel a LSX, Dart Hybrid, or ERL superdeck I 6 bolt block is necessary, for the larger bore (unshroud the vavles) and thicker sleeves. I intend to run my existing LS9 4 bolt heads and std ARP studs until head lifting becomes an issue.

So after this long winded post what is the opinion of those with experience near this level? Is the 6 bolt block a necessary expense at this level? 3.62 stroke or 3.80 stroke? Best engine shop for the money? (I've talked to LME, AES and PM's from ERL) So far I'm leaning toward LME because of their dedication to the LS platform and price. I hate to add 20-30 lbs for the LSX or Dart block, the car scales 49.7f/50.3r now with me in it. Another issue I'm concerned with Callies Dragon Slayer cranks is a couple of local guys have had 4" stroke cranks flex and wiping out the thrust bearing and I've heard issues with welded on reluctor wheels coming off and/or not being clocked correctly. Advantage that I've heard from ERL is an exclusive from Callies with a wheel machined directly into the crank.

Prices on a 388 6 bolt short block have ranged from $8500ish to $9500ish vs around $3800-$5000 for a 370-390 4 bolt factory block build (big price difference).

I know several of you guys have seen the car in person and I really appreciate the comments. We will be at LS fest in Bowling Green, Please introduce yourselves as Bullet members if you are there.

 

High 7's @ 3500#'s and dependable is going to rule out 4 bolt heads imo.
Just to correct what you heard, we use a billet reluctor that is still pressed on (not machined into the crank), but eliminates the possibility of separation.
Also we offer a 3.900" stroke crank with 2.200" rod journals that increases crank overlap to make it more stable as you mentioned. Callies makes an ultra billet rod for us with the BBC big end to run the larger bearing.That would put you at 416-417" with a 4.125" bore and offers better compression height as you mentioned. The 387-388" would be safe on the 6766 turbo's at high RPM's.
The big motor would be more fun on the street because it would be on boost sooner, but the small engine would handle the High RPM's at the track without back-pressure coming into play. It depends on which you do the most.
Cam, lifters and springs are going to be key to living up to the street miles and the boost /RPM's to run high 7's, so don't do budget there. I'm working on a similar build for a customer, but cheap wasn't in the build. I tend to overkill and told him that it's capable of better than his goal of 7.50's on a 106mm though.
My $.02.

 

Thanks Carl. Don't confuse my cheap with "don't want to spend on unnecessary upgrades). I don't want a stock crank or eagle/scat rotating assembly (which would be cheap). I sell/install residential heating and cooling systems in vacation area. I'm a Trane dealer, I sale quality. But I don't try to up sale vacation home owners 16+SEER systems because the upgrades WON'T pay for themselves and the advantages won't be utilized. I'm looking for the same thing in an engine and builder. Quality parts and machine work at a fair price. But not something I don't need. I.e. I don't need a billet crank.

Maybe we miss understood but we remember talking to one of your guys at LSX shoot out in Indy last year about a 275x car we work on. 427 LSX block, dragslayer crank deal that kept wiping out the thrust bearing. We thought your guy said you have an exclusive on a crank from Callies that has bbc journals and the wheel machined directly into the crank, eleminating the 2 major problems with these FI 4" stroke combos, crank flex and the wheel coming off.

I don't really feel I need to upgrade my turbos to run very low 8's. maybe to run 7.90's. I really want and engine sized (and keep the cam timing in the mid/upper 220's) to match my existing turbo/intake set up as there is a LOT of work that has been put into it.

 

Carl will an LS1 block work the same as an LS2 block for one of your builds?

 

I'm not saying your cheap by no means, I just want to warn you that some things will cost and you wouldn't want to cut corners especially if you want trouble free. I know where you are coming from in not needing everything for your goal. The crank and rods I threw out there would be overkill, but since you brought up the overlap....there are options.
Stay away from the 98-2000 blocks. Mainly you will want the equal length head studs( LS6/ gen2 ) of the early blocks. We can't do a dry sleeve on the LS1,LS6's but we can do the superdeck which yours would be to go 6-bolt.
I hope to see you at the Holley Fest if you get a chance to stop by.

 

What's it take to talk to you guys on the phone? I've called 6 times and left 2 messages. If you wanted a $9000-$12,000 heating and cooling system put in your house you would expect to talk to me on the phone and me come out to your house at least once before giving you a proposal and you commiting to me working on your home. Yet the only communication I've had with ERL is through Internet forums. If I commit to ERL an have a problem how do I resolve it? I'm a little old school. This typing is wearing me out.

 

The only 2 I was able to get quotes from were LME and AES. Both were good to work with and followed up our conversations with quotes quickly.

 

I vote for a 390-410 cube setup.

I lean more towards the 410 cube that AES makes being that it is a bigger bore which can utilize bigger heads, LS7, LSW etc.

You mention unshroud the valves. You have a boosted application which kinda takes that out of the equation.

As far as LS1 block for re-sleeving. the 5.3L aluminum blocks are going on here for 300-500 all day. They are a better choice in my book. I just picked up 2 of them recently for 300 a piece.

 

I've seen a STOCK 5.3 with a single turbo run 1000 crank horsepower on a dyno. It ran one time great then they turned up the boost some more and it finally exploded... You can't go wrong with a built 5.3. This is definitely one route I'm still considering.

 

Did you even read half of what I posted?

The car has been 9.09 at 147 already. I want an engine that'll go 50,000+miles, make 8.50 passes anywhere and not worry about breaking it 500+ miles from home.

 

I apologize, one of our sales guys just had surgery and is out so it will get better. Are you the one that pm'ed me your number? I usually don't do sales, but I passed it on to sales to call you. I will call you if you PM me your #, but they are better at pricing/quoting than myself.

 

Did you read what I posted????? A STOCK 5.3 can hold 1000 horsepower STOCK INTERNALS.. Put forged internals in there and talk about reliability

 

5.3 (325cu in) + 32psi = 1000 hp

6.4 (390 cu in) + ~19psi =1000hp

Boost breaks ****. 390 cubes will be more reliable all day. A 427 would be even better but the OP doesn't want to change turbos so somewhere in the 390-410 area is where he needs to be.

 

5.3 + heads cam and 21 psi is like 1300hp. There's a billion magazine write ups on it

 

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I not trying to insult anyone here that is talented or unquanitify Skinnies or Denmah's style of work and accomplishments. But here is my official statement to the 5.3 suggestion.

This engine has rectangle port heads on it already, the intake manifold has an air to water intercooler core built into the manifold base. It takes about 2 talented guys 2 hours to put the intake on with all the **** underneath of it. This is not a Sloppy Mechanics build, and while truck manifold systems can make a **** ton of power this is not one of those (the engine hiding in there now went 8.15@172 in a different car with truck manifolds).

I'm not cutting and hacking anything under the hood of the car. It has 6262 Precision v-band turbos that should support 1400 hp on a 388 and 6766's are a drop in replacement for a conservative 200-250 hp gain. I'm not some punk *** kid, I know what I'm doing as does Blake Hughes of 417motorsports who fabbed the hot side, cold side, manifold top, I/C and pretty much everything else under the hood of this car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99969026@N06/9454163761/

I came here looking for intelligent from experience engine builiders sure as AES, LME, Shawn @ Virginia Speed, ERL who for whatever reason won't call me. I want an Extreme duty street engine that I can run for 5-10 years and not take the valve covers off of. This is not the car for putting junk yard motors in and blowing the **** out of them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99969026@N06/9454189337/

That's Joe Barry's 200+Mph 6 second 56 Chevy behind my car at Gus's Drive-In and here's what he had to say on Yellowbullet:
"This is my favorite car I saw the whole weekend. I kept sending people over to take a look because to me it was the coolest. I'm not good with names however the gentleman and his son as well as his girlfriend were great people to talk to. They built this car to what they like and it's kick ***. The next car I build is going to be alot like theirs , it just oozes cool and it runs damn good."

I'm never selling the car, it's exactly the way I wanted to build it and I want an engine that I can put in, beat on hard and not break it.

 

Yes you pushed my instant ******* button

 

You can preach that all day, the Op is not going that route.

1300hp is easy to do all day on an engine dyno. Put that setup in a 3700lb car and watch what all the drivetrain weight does to that thing.

If you want to use a 5.3 in your setup, then by all means do so. In this car is not a practical solution.

 

1000-1300hp for a dyno run is different from a 1/4 mile pass, which is different from 200 passes. Doing something a few times doesn't make it reliable.

Livernois did my shortblock. They maybe a good one to talk too.

 

Nah I went with an ls2

 

Hey 00wildcat, I got a question about your setup.

Does the car have full exhaust or front exit ?

Very Nice Setup, a true strret car !