street cars with FI and e85, got a question
12-09-2013, 12:04 AM
#24
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12-09-2013, 12:44 AM
#25
A lot of people say that because E85 demands 30% more fuel that you'll see a 30% reduction in fuel economy. From a straight conversion, yes this observation is probably close.
Tune specifically for cruising with E85. With its higher octane rating, you can lean the mixture out to the point where it is within 10% of gasoline without any side effects. You can also add timing to make more cruising torque, so you have to get less into the throttle to maintain speed. An ideal E85 tune will get within 10% of the fuel economy of gasoline and be a much better fuel for boost.
So if you were getting 24 mpg with gas on a normal cruise while controlling your urge to hammer it, you'll still be able to get over 20 mph with E85.
As far as shelf life, lots of people are able to store E85 in sealed drums in their garage for ~6 months. I've seen articles where it was tested after 6 months of storage and was still testing as 85% ethanol. With this, its safe to assume that the results up to 1 year wouldn't be much different. Still, it wouldn't be a bad idea to toss in a small bottle of fuel treatment with it on fill-up, as its often the gasoline that has issues with long-term storage.
Tune specifically for cruising with E85. With its higher octane rating, you can lean the mixture out to the point where it is within 10% of gasoline without any side effects. You can also add timing to make more cruising torque, so you have to get less into the throttle to maintain speed. An ideal E85 tune will get within 10% of the fuel economy of gasoline and be a much better fuel for boost.
So if you were getting 24 mpg with gas on a normal cruise while controlling your urge to hammer it, you'll still be able to get over 20 mph with E85.
As far as shelf life, lots of people are able to store E85 in sealed drums in their garage for ~6 months. I've seen articles where it was tested after 6 months of storage and was still testing as 85% ethanol. With this, its safe to assume that the results up to 1 year wouldn't be much different. Still, it wouldn't be a bad idea to toss in a small bottle of fuel treatment with it on fill-up, as its often the gasoline that has issues with long-term storage.
12-09-2013, 04:00 AM
#26
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I also think of it like this. The 6.0's are getting like 14/19mpg in Denalis, silverado's, etc. but they weigh a 1000 lbs more than I and they are set more for emmissions. Personally, every car you will to figure out. On mine it took a while but I have some part throttle areas that I have it as lean as 15.5. I tried to get it as lean as I could without getting a part throttle surge.
12-09-2013, 07:17 AM
#28
With an optimized tune, you might make slightly more on E85. Otherwise about the same. E85 biggest benefit is in the cool burn and higher octane. You can add a few degrees of timing and a little more boost and still have a safe tune.
12-09-2013, 09:03 AM
#29
I get about 18 on the highway when i keep my foot out of it. Once i start getting into boost, i get well under 10. If your closest station is 40min away, thats gonna be tough. I have 2-3 stations within a mile of my house and on nights when im out running ill go through a half tank pretty quick. But i also never let it get below 1/4 tank if im racing, dont want to risk going lean.
12-09-2013, 10:04 AM
#33
I’ve switched over to E85 on a lot of cars now I see around a 15-20% drop in cruise MPG on all of them. 40% more fuel at WOT, though I run 10.5:1 or richer WOT.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
12-09-2013, 10:15 AM
#34
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I’ve switched over to E85 on a lot of cars now I see around a 15-20% drop in cruise MPG on all of them. 40% more fuel at WOT, though I run 10.5:1 or richer WOT.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
12-09-2013, 10:44 AM
#35
Good point about the gear and trans playing a part in mpg's. AFR plays a pretty good part also. You have your afr at 10.5, my car won't run for **** with anything under 11. I run mine safely at 11.5 and when I want to try for an all out new best I will run as lean as 11.7 at WOT
My last 5.3 was 8.6:1 didn’t start losing MPH until I dipped into the high 9 AFR range. I also ran it as lean as 11.4 but didn’t pick up any MPH. So I ran it on the rich side of peak power to keep things “safe”. Also I don’t have faith in my cheapo 120lb bosch knock off injectors all flowing the rated 120lbs.
12-09-2013, 11:25 AM
#37
I’ve switched over to E85 on a lot of cars now I see around a 15-20% drop in cruise MPG on all of them. 40% more fuel at WOT, though I run 10.5:1 or richer WOT.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
The MPG factor is more a matter of gearing and trans/converter IMO. Get a tall enough gear out back with an OD trans and there’s no reason you couldn't get great 20-25mpg. On E85 I netted over 30mpg at 65mph on my 3.8 rx7 with a 2.73 gear (28” tire) and over dive trans. and lockup converter. Car ran high 10’s at 130ish.
Pump gas (even with most alky kits) has a small AFR “window” for tuning peak power. This makes it difficult to keep the motor out of detonation and in peak power. E85’s “tuning window” for peak power is huge in comparison (easier to tune). Most alky kit users don’t spray near enough methanol with their meth/alky kits to really take advantage of it and open up that “window”. With E85 your replacing roughly 85% of the total mixture with ethanol. With most meth injection kits I rarely see more than 10-15% of the total WOT mixture being replaced with alcohol. Then people throw water in the mix or run the 20% meth washer fluid mixes.
IMO you need to replace 30% + of your WOT fuel with straight methanol to really take advantage of meth injection and get that larger “tuning window” for peak power that we all want. Then you must stay on top of your fuel system/alky kit maintenance. If the kit or your main fuel system fails in the middle of a run you will most likely break something major. This is the big draw back with meth injection IMO.
Have you looked into building a low compression pump gas motor? Remember you only lose around 4% of your total power for each full point of compression lost. With the quick boost produced with a blower it may be an option to consider.
This is why I decided to run 9.1:1cr when building my motor.
12-09-2013, 11:38 AM
#38
12-09-2013, 03:06 PM
#39
12-09-2013, 06:46 PM
#40
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Only played with one LS turbo setup so far. Not sure why mine didn't react to leaner AFR's. I just start rich and let the engine tell me what it wanted. I picked up nothing leaning it out. Possibly .2-.3 mph but nothing major like you. 8.6:1 comp may have played a part. Goofy LS9 cam may have as well.
