How much power before e85/meth needed?
the thing with running the higher base psi is you have to have a damn good pump & regulator. But if you want to running higher pressures you can get away with less injector.
On my car I just went ahead & bought 120# injectors, they only see about 70-75% DC on E85 with a 50psi base 22 pounds of boost.
On my car I just went ahead & bought 120# injectors, they only see about 70-75% DC on E85 with a 50psi base 22 pounds of boost.
Let's throw some math to all of this.
80lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 640lb/hr
640lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 985 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
640lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 757 crankshaft hp
Now these injectors (deka 80's) are rated at 3 bar, so at 4 bar they flow around 92lbs.
92lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 736lb/hr
736lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 1132 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
736lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 871 crankshaft hp
80lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 640lb/hr
640lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 985 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
640lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 757 crankshaft hp
Now these injectors (deka 80's) are rated at 3 bar, so at 4 bar they flow around 92lbs.
92lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 736lb/hr
736lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 1132 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
736lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 871 crankshaft hp
Let's throw some math to all of this.
80lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 640lb/hr
640lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 985 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
640lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 757 crankshaft hp
Now these injectors (deka 80's) are rated at 3 bar, so at 4 bar they flow around 92lbs.
92lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 736lb/hr
736lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 1132 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
736lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 871 crankshaft hp
80lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 640lb/hr
640lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 985 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
640lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 757 crankshaft hp
Now these injectors (deka 80's) are rated at 3 bar, so at 4 bar they flow around 92lbs.
92lb/hr injectors x 8 injectors = 736lb/hr
736lb/hr / .65bsfc (gas) = 1132 crankshaft hp
E85 requires about 30% more fuel
736lb/hr / .845bsfc (E85) = 871 crankshaft hp
It's been proven through real world testing though that the Hi-Z 80's can make much more than 871 crank hp. Both by a dyno and by weight VS trap speed. Of course this was also done above the suggested 80% DC of the injectors. I've gone in the upper 90's and even static on injectors time and time again and never had a hiccup.
Going by weight and trap speed he was making 930ish WHP. Thats 3 intank 255's -10 to the regulator, -6 to the OEM fuel rail. You can argue numbers on paper all day long. The fact is, it's been done.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 22, 2013 at 12:54 PM.
According to the calculator I used the 80's flow like a 101lb injector at 68psi. Or about 1050cc.
8 777cc injectors
.55 BSFC (.65 seems a bit over shot if you ask me)
99% DC
can make 1075 FWHP
777cc X 30% for E85 = 1010cc
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 22, 2013 at 03:15 PM.
stock lines, rails, with 80's and 3 - 255's have made 800 plus on about a half a dozen combos around here.
if your on e85 and I were you i'd be turning my base pressure up to about 60 lbs and see what it will do.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Florence, MS
The limit of pump gas isn't dictated by horsepower or boost, but how well the heat is kept in check. A 1.6L Honda would see knock at 120 HP with 13:1 and stock cams on 91. A 572 at 7.5:1 compression and a pair of billet 88s would make it above 1500 before it seen knock on pump gas.
There are tons of ways to keep temps low. Low compression, less timing, water or meth injection, bigger intercooler, free-flowing exhaust (less back pressure), larger turbine housings, lower degree thermostat, colder heat range plugs, nitrous, blah blah blah.
There are tons of ways to keep temps low. Low compression, less timing, water or meth injection, bigger intercooler, free-flowing exhaust (less back pressure), larger turbine housings, lower degree thermostat, colder heat range plugs, nitrous, blah blah blah.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 3
Most factory boosted cars are in the 8:1-8.6:1 range. My old SRT4 was 8:1. If a 4 cylinder can be driven just fine out of boost at 8:1, a V8 won't even sweat it. At best you'll be down 15-20 HP with a one point drop.
I've also been 159mph on street tires(mud and snow tires, not drag radials) in my mustang at 3340lbs(aluminum motor in it then) with 80lb injectors. We ran right at 100lbs of fuel pressure at wot with no issues.
We've also done quite a few other cars, have LOTS of street miles with 80lb siemen injectors and 800+ rwhp on e85 and no issues with them.
Sadly 99% of people never push a fuel system, they just read what someone on the internet told them they can't do, or listen to their "tuner or shop" who has never done it. Too many "experts" without any hands on experience anymore thanks to the internet.
We've also done quite a few other cars, have LOTS of street miles with 80lb siemen injectors and 800+ rwhp on e85 and no issues with them.
Sadly 99% of people never push a fuel system, they just read what someone on the internet told them they can't do, or listen to their "tuner or shop" who has never done it. Too many "experts" without any hands on experience anymore thanks to the internet.
Same turbo here, Gen 2 motor, and only 10psi with no meth etc
Off trap/weight should be mid 700hp, but thats moot since its an auto, point is, lower CR (mine is mid 9s) and 80# injectors on a 60psi base work fine.
I have a magnafuel big *** noisy external but it works.
Off trap/weight should be mid 700hp, but thats moot since its an auto, point is, lower CR (mine is mid 9s) and 80# injectors on a 60psi base work fine.
I have a magnafuel big *** noisy external but it works.
I've also been 159mph on street tires(mud and snow tires, not drag radials) in my mustang at 3340lbs(aluminum motor in it then) with 80lb injectors. We ran right at 100lbs of fuel pressure at wot with no issues.
We've also done quite a few other cars, have LOTS of street miles with 80lb siemen injectors and 800+ rwhp on e85 and no issues with them.
Sadly 99% of people never push a fuel system, they just read what someone on the internet told them they can't do, or listen to their "tuner or shop" who has never done it. Too many "experts" without any hands on experience anymore thanks to the internet.
We've also done quite a few other cars, have LOTS of street miles with 80lb siemen injectors and 800+ rwhp on e85 and no issues with them.
Sadly 99% of people never push a fuel system, they just read what someone on the internet told them they can't do, or listen to their "tuner or shop" who has never done it. Too many "experts" without any hands on experience anymore thanks to the internet.
I've ran stock rails in my rx7 without an issue, in my mustang I have a pro flo intake so I have aftermarket rails. Both I use the Mallory 4305M regulator, with stock rails we always run the regulator just before the rails.
I have ran triple walbro 255 pumps before at 90+ lbs pressure at wot, now I prefer the bosch 044 pumps.
Everyone gets afraid of going over 80% duty cycle, that is just a calculated number. It's not like it stops adding fuel at 100% duty cycle. Also we have NEVER had an issue running 100% duty cycle with the 80lb injectors, many many miles on them and never a problem.
I have ran triple walbro 255 pumps before at 90+ lbs pressure at wot, now I prefer the bosch 044 pumps.
Everyone gets afraid of going over 80% duty cycle, that is just a calculated number. It's not like it stops adding fuel at 100% duty cycle. Also we have NEVER had an issue running 100% duty cycle with the 80lb injectors, many many miles on them and never a problem.
I've ran stock rails in my rx7 without an issue, in my mustang I have a pro flo intake so I have aftermarket rails. Both I use the Mallory 4305M regulator, with stock rails we always run the regulator just before the rails.
I have ran triple walbro 255 pumps before at 90+ lbs pressure at wot, now I prefer the bosch 044 pumps.
Everyone gets afraid of going over 80% duty cycle, that is just a calculated number. It's not like it stops adding fuel at 100% duty cycle. Also we have NEVER had an issue running 100% duty cycle with the 80lb injectors, many many miles on them and never a problem.
I have ran triple walbro 255 pumps before at 90+ lbs pressure at wot, now I prefer the bosch 044 pumps.
Everyone gets afraid of going over 80% duty cycle, that is just a calculated number. It's not like it stops adding fuel at 100% duty cycle. Also we have NEVER had an issue running 100% duty cycle with the 80lb injectors, many many miles on them and never a problem.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Florence, MS
Were either one of them boosted? If so was it on 93 or e85? And if so what kind of power/times was it turning
The times in my sig below are the 8.6:1 5.3. E85 fuel.
