BW s475, 476, 480 users come in :)
01-07-2014, 03:22 PM
#21
Don't worry about spool up with the right cam Turbo kit and a nice tune it will spool faster than you think. I hit 16psi by 3500 max haven't tried 20psi on the street yet as I need a lot of road to do that! And this was with a cast wheel Turbo. I've got the billet to bolt up next and that will spool even quicker
01-07-2014, 03:52 PM
#22
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Don't worry about spool up with the right cam Turbo kit and a nice tune it will spool faster than you think. I hit 16psi by 3500 max haven't tried 20psi on the street yet as I need a lot of road to do that! And this was with a cast wheel Turbo. I've got the billet to bolt up next and that will spool even quicker
01-07-2014, 03:52 PM
#23
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im running a rear mount pt7175 and it is making 772/767 on my 5.3. its gone over 800 already. and we think it will make closer to 900 on pump meth and klotz. I think you need to turn up the wick!
01-07-2014, 04:22 PM
#24
Don't worry about spool up with the right cam Turbo kit and a nice tune it will spool faster than you think. I hit 16psi by 3500 max haven't tried 20psi on the street yet as I need a lot of road to do that! And this was with a cast wheel Turbo. I've got the billet to bolt up next and that will spool even quicker
I wish they would all go back to cast and cut the price of these turbos in half.
01-07-2014, 04:34 PM
#25
A billet wheel won’t spool up any faster than a cast wheel of the same dimensions. If anything a billet wheel is heavier as it is more dense. Billet wheel turbos were created for strength and longevity in diesel applications. They are more of a gimmick than anything in the performance world. The reason most billet wheels make more power is because they are a different blade profile and or size than the cast wheel they replace. This is straight from the mouth of a design engineer at Borg Warner.
I wish they would all go back to cast and cut the price of these turbos in half.
I wish they would all go back to cast and cut the price of these turbos in half.
01-07-2014, 05:09 PM
#27
I'm sure it did, like I said the wheels would have to be the same dimensions. The billet "race" wheels performance companies sell are different dimensions than the cast wheels they replace. In other words if they made a cast wheel the same dimensions it would be cheaper and perform just as well. The fact that it's billet basically means it's shiney... and they can charge more for it. Thats according to the guys at BW anyway. Makes sense to me. What is the purpose of a billet wheel?
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-07-2014 at 06:30 PM.
01-07-2014, 05:45 PM
#28
Im not big on rwhp dynos but my billet v2 S476/92/T4 traps mid 164 out of gear on rev limiter @3300+ lbs. It will go 167-168 or so I think with more gear and turbo maxed out. I have a cast S480/92/T4 that runs about dead even with it and it has gone 6.0/117.xx @4800 lbs. they will both make 18psi at 3300 rpm within a couple seconds but the billet 76 comes up a good amount quicker.
01-07-2014, 05:51 PM
#29
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Don't worry about spool up with the right cam Turbo kit and a nice tune it will spool faster than you think. I hit 16psi by 3500 max haven't tried 20psi on the street yet as I need a lot of road to do that! And this was with a cast wheel Turbo. I've got the billet to bolt up next and that will spool even quicker
01-07-2014, 05:53 PM
#30
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Im not big on rwhp dynos but my billet v2 S476/92/T4 traps mid 164 out of gear on rev limiter @3300+ lbs. It will go 167-168 or so I think with more gear and turbo maxed out. I have a cast S480/92/T4 that runs about dead even with it and it has gone 6.0/117.xx @4800 lbs. they will both make 18psi at 3300 rpm within a couple seconds but the billet 76 comes up a good amount quicker.
01-07-2014, 06:03 PM
#31
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A billet wheel won’t spool up any faster than a cast wheel of the same dimensions. If anything a billet wheel is heavier as it is more dense. Billet wheel turbos were created for strength and longevity in diesel applications. They are more of a gimmick than anything in the performance world. The reason most billet wheels make more power is because they are a different blade profile and or size than the cast wheel they replace. This is straight from the mouth of a design engineer at Borg Warner.
I wish they would all go back to cast and cut the price of these turbos in half.
I wish they would all go back to cast and cut the price of these turbos in half.
01-07-2014, 06:07 PM
#32
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I'm sure it did, like I said the wheels would have to be the same dimensions. The billet "race" wheels performance companies sell are different dimensions than the cast wheels they replace. In other words if they made a cast wheel it would be cheaper and perform just as well. The fact that it's billet basically means it's shiney... and they can charge more for it. Thats according to the guys at BW anyway. Makes sense to me. What is the purpose of a billet wheel?
01-07-2014, 06:51 PM
#33
sorry, some of your info is incorrect. The billet wheels/FMW turbos that B/W sells are heavier wheels than cast even if the sizes are the same. You use Forced Inductions's billet wheels, or Bullseye's they are lighter and have different profiles, even if the sizes remain the same they are lighter. Again, the factory billet/FMW wheels are heavier than the cast counterparts. I run a diesel repair/performance shop with my brother and can tell you first hand the FMW wheels spool slower than the FI, or Bullseye batmowheels.
On race applications your not going to stress a cast blades. Billet was introduced for for longevity in the big rigs. 300k+ at a constant 20+psi on a diesel would eventually stress the blades. Light duty drag/street applications don't have this issue. I've seen cast wheels withstand 120psi+ without an issue on compound tractor setups. Durability IS NOT an issue with drag racing.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm not saying your wrong, but I've yet to see anyone weigh the compressors your talking about VS a cast replica of the same wheel. The billet unit would have to be considerably "thinner" to be lighter than a cast unit. None of the billet wheels I've personally had my hands on ran a blade any thinner than the cast units. I've yet to see this. Also you can't compare wheels with totally different profiles and claim one out performs the other because of the material it's made of. It doesn't matter if the company sells a billet s475 and a cast s475. Those are just names, the wheels are totally different.
01-07-2014, 07:56 PM
#34
I'd be satisfied with that. My turbo kit is a true PTK hotside with t4 flange. The cam is a custom Tick turbo cam that should work well with an s476 or s480. Guess it's time to take some measurements and make sure I can actually fit the massive thing on the PTK hotside lol.
01-07-2014, 08:18 PM
#35
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None of my info was incorrect. You just reworded it. I said a cast wheel of the SAME dimensions as a billet wheel will be lighter. Thats a fact.
On race applications your not going to stress a cast blades. Billet was introduced for for longevity in the big rigs. 300k+ at a constant 20+psi on a diesel would eventually stress the blades. Light duty drag/street applications don't have this issue. I've seen cast wheels withstand 120psi+ without an issue on compound tractor setups. Durability IS NOT an issue with drag racing.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm not saying your wrong, but I've yet to see anyone weigh the compressors your talking about VS a cast replica of the same wheel. The billet unit would have to be considerably "thinner" to be lighter than a cast unit. None of the billet wheels I've personally had my hands on ran a blade any thinner than the cast units. I've yet to see this. Also you can't compare wheels with totally different profiles and claim one out performs the other because of the material it's made of. It doesn't matter if the company sells a billet s475 and a cast s475. Those are just names, the wheels are totally different.
On race applications your not going to stress a cast blades. Billet was introduced for for longevity in the big rigs. 300k+ at a constant 20+psi on a diesel would eventually stress the blades. Light duty drag/street applications don't have this issue. I've seen cast wheels withstand 120psi+ without an issue on compound tractor setups. Durability IS NOT an issue with drag racing.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm not saying your wrong, but I've yet to see anyone weigh the compressors your talking about VS a cast replica of the same wheel. The billet unit would have to be considerably "thinner" to be lighter than a cast unit. None of the billet wheels I've personally had my hands on ran a blade any thinner than the cast units. I've yet to see this. Also you can't compare wheels with totally different profiles and claim one out performs the other because of the material it's made of. It doesn't matter if the company sells a billet s475 and a cast s475. Those are just names, the wheels are totally different.
01-07-2014, 09:37 PM
#36
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Im not big on rwhp dynos but my billet v2 S476/92/T4 traps mid 164 out of gear on rev limiter @3300+ lbs. It will go 167-168 or so I think with more gear and turbo maxed out. I have a cast S480/92/T4 that runs about dead even with it and it has gone 6.0/117.xx @4800 lbs. they will both make 18psi at 3300 rpm within a couple seconds but the billet 76 comes up a good amount quicker.
Impressive. Who's billet 76 are you running (there are so many out there). Also- the 92mm turbine is the "new tech" BW stuff correct? Last question-what AR t4?
Thanks a ton!
01-07-2014, 09:57 PM
#37
Its called Testing different setups. I've had compounds on my duramax, ive had cast, billet singles on it and i will be getting another billet v2 drop in wheel for it since i just did a FI s366 on a different dmax, and guess what.... it spools faster! and pulls harder than mine.
Unless you tested an exact cast copy of the billet wheel you claim is "faster spooling" and tested them back to back you aren't saying anything useful. Of course the "billet" wheels will run better. They are a better (and usually larger) profile wheel.
What I'm saying is the current wheels aren't so complex that you need a 5 axis CNC machine and a chunk of billet to make them. Take that same "super billet" wheel and make a casting of it. Then mass produce it for half the cost. It could easily be done. It isn't because there is a larger profit margin for the shiny wheel turbos.
Here is a great article on it...
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...%20Wheels.html
Straight from BW....
BW AirWerks - In general... yes, we can make anything if you want to pay for it In the performance and/or racing world though, there is really no benefit to using a "billet" CW other than it's shinny. Basically, billet, or FMW (Forged Milled Wheel) compressors came about due to OE applications requiring them. When a turbo is constantly being cycled from high speed to low speed, the wheel becomes fatigued and can eventually lead to a hub burst (CW splits in half). Imagine the compressor acting like a big drag slick like you see on top fuel cars; during the burnout, you can see them get skinny and "grow" in height... On a much smaller scale, the CW sees this same process over and over again, and over time this weakens the wheel, eventually leading to a fracture and possibly a hub burst.
Now ask your self how many times you've seen a race car's CW split in half... I have never, and I've seen a LOT of failures. Even the billet aluminum isn't enough in some newer applications and we've turned to titanium which in its FMW form, is nearly indestructible. I've heard all the propaganda surrounding the billet wheel myths: higher boost capability, higher flow, higher efficiency, etc... The higher boost capability is the only one which is true, but not because it's machined and not true for racing use. OE diesel applications using FMW compressors can run higher boost pressures more reliably simply because they are less susceptible to fatigue as they're cycled from higher speeds (required to make more pressure) to low speeds.
Now ask your self how many times you've seen a race car's CW split in half... I have never, and I've seen a LOT of failures. Even the billet aluminum isn't enough in some newer applications and we've turned to titanium which in its FMW form, is nearly indestructible. I've heard all the propaganda surrounding the billet wheel myths: higher boost capability, higher flow, higher efficiency, etc... The higher boost capability is the only one which is true, but not because it's machined and not true for racing use. OE diesel applications using FMW compressors can run higher boost pressures more reliably simply because they are less susceptible to fatigue as they're cycled from higher speeds (required to make more pressure) to low speeds.
No noticeable gains in performance can be seen when testing a machined wheel vs. a cast wheel of the same design.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-07-2014 at 10:18 PM.
01-07-2014, 09:58 PM
#38
TECH Fanatic
None of my info was incorrect. You just reworded it. I said a cast wheel of the SAME dimensions as a billet wheel will be lighter. Thats a fact.
On race applications your not going to stress a cast blades. Billet was introduced for for longevity in the big rigs. 300k+ at a constant 20+psi on a diesel would eventually stress the blades. Light duty drag/street applications don't have this issue. I've seen cast wheels withstand 120psi+ without an issue on compound tractor setups. Durability IS NOT an issue with drag racing.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm not saying your wrong, but I've yet to see anyone weigh the compressors your talking about VS a cast replica of the same wheel. The billet unit would have to be considerably "thinner" to be lighter than a cast unit. None of the billet wheels I've personally had my hands on ran a blade any thinner than the cast units. I've yet to see this. Also you can't compare wheels with totally different profiles and claim one out performs the other because of the material it's made of. It doesn't matter if the company sells a billet s475 and a cast s475. Those are just names, the wheels are totally different.
On race applications your not going to stress a cast blades. Billet was introduced for for longevity in the big rigs. 300k+ at a constant 20+psi on a diesel would eventually stress the blades. Light duty drag/street applications don't have this issue. I've seen cast wheels withstand 120psi+ without an issue on compound tractor setups. Durability IS NOT an issue with drag racing.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm not saying your wrong, but I've yet to see anyone weigh the compressors your talking about VS a cast replica of the same wheel. The billet unit would have to be considerably "thinner" to be lighter than a cast unit. None of the billet wheels I've personally had my hands on ran a blade any thinner than the cast units. I've yet to see this. Also you can't compare wheels with totally different profiles and claim one out performs the other because of the material it's made of. It doesn't matter if the company sells a billet s475 and a cast s475. Those are just names, the wheels are totally different.
You are correct that a billet wheel vs a cast wheel for the exact same dimension will perform the same-but you (and Dmax to a point) are bit off everywhere else.
You have to take the BW quote with a grain of salt-after all, he is trying to sell turbos! The true reason of why there is so many billet options on the market is low production number turbos (its cheaper to cut billet than create a casting for low production) and the fact that billet is significantly stronger means you can get away smaller shank and blades-which was mentioned. PTE's billet wheels for example are MUCH thinner-and allow for more effective area. The PTE6266's inducer for example is only 1mm lager than a 35r, but because the Shank is almost 2mm thinner (and the turbine blades are also significantly thinner) you get much more effective area-and in turn a turbo that can flow 150 more CFM with the same or better spool characteristics. Not because it is lighter-its larger-heavier-but simply flows more air than the 35r at any given shaft speed.
The notion that it was for OE use is silly. A good friend is the lead tech at the local Truck (Semi) shop. He sees about 20-25 new rigs in the shop for service a week. I have asked him to take note of the turbos on the tucks for the past month. You know how many have come through with OE billet turbos? Zero. Obviously this is third hand info-but I also asked my local freightliner dealer-and he told me none of the trucks on his lot came with a billet turbo stock-but you can upgrade for a price
Also-saying they don't blow up in drag racing or at @ XXX psi is also silly-you know better than anyone-pressure vs flow. If you go to any event where turbo pro mod cars are running, you are all but guaranteed to see a turbo grenade due to the wild shaft speeds they run. Hell I think atomicfusion even narked a few turbos-one almost causing his car to burn down. He's not running anything near 120psi.
01-07-2014, 10:07 PM
#39
You are correct that a billet wheel vs a cast wheel for the exact same dimension will perform the same-but you (and Dmax to a point) are bit off everywhere else.
You have to take the BW quote with a grain of salt-after all, he is trying to sell turbos! The true reason of why there is so many billet options on the market is low production number turbos (its cheaper to cut billet than create a casting for low production) and the fact that billet is significantly stronger means you can get away smaller shank and blades-which was mentioned. PTE's billet wheels for example are MUCH thinner-and allow for more effective area. The PTE6266's inducer for example is only 1mm lager than a 35r, but because the Shank is almost 2mm thinner (and the turbine blades are also significantly thinner) you get much more effective area-and in turn a turbo that can flow 150 more CFM with the same or better spool characteristics. Not because it is lighter-its larger-heavier-but simply flows more air than the 35r at any given shaft speed.
The notion that it was for OE use is silly. A good friend is the lead tech at the local Truck (Semi) shop. He sees about 20-25 new rigs in the shop for service a week. I have asked him to take note of the turbos on the tucks for the past month. You know how many have come through with OE billet turbos? Zero. Obviously this is third hand info-but I also asked my local freightliner dealer-and he told me none of the trucks on his lot came with a billet turbo stock-but you can upgrade for a price
Also-saying they don't blow up in drag racing or at @ XXX psi is also silly-you know better than anyone-pressure vs flow. If you go to any event where turbo pro mod cars are running, you are all but guaranteed to see a turbo grenade due to the wild shaft speeds they run. Hell I think atomicfusion even narked a few turbos-one almost causing his car to burn down. He's not running anything near 120psi.
You have to take the BW quote with a grain of salt-after all, he is trying to sell turbos! The true reason of why there is so many billet options on the market is low production number turbos (its cheaper to cut billet than create a casting for low production) and the fact that billet is significantly stronger means you can get away smaller shank and blades-which was mentioned. PTE's billet wheels for example are MUCH thinner-and allow for more effective area. The PTE6266's inducer for example is only 1mm lager than a 35r, but because the Shank is almost 2mm thinner (and the turbine blades are also significantly thinner) you get much more effective area-and in turn a turbo that can flow 150 more CFM with the same or better spool characteristics. Not because it is lighter-its larger-heavier-but simply flows more air than the 35r at any given shaft speed.
The notion that it was for OE use is silly. A good friend is the lead tech at the local Truck (Semi) shop. He sees about 20-25 new rigs in the shop for service a week. I have asked him to take note of the turbos on the tucks for the past month. You know how many have come through with OE billet turbos? Zero. Obviously this is third hand info-but I also asked my local freightliner dealer-and he told me none of the trucks on his lot came with a billet turbo stock-but you can upgrade for a price
Also-saying they don't blow up in drag racing or at @ XXX psi is also silly-you know better than anyone-pressure vs flow. If you go to any event where turbo pro mod cars are running, you are all but guaranteed to see a turbo grenade due to the wild shaft speeds they run. Hell I think atomicfusion even narked a few turbos-one almost causing his car to burn down. He's not running anything near 120psi.
I'll give you the easier to manufacturer for low production volumes... but that has NOTHING to do with performance VS a cast wheel. Read the link above...
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-07-2014 at 10:14 PM.
01-07-2014, 10:10 PM
#40
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You are correct that a billet wheel vs a cast wheel for the exact same dimension will perform the same-but you (and Dmax to a point) are bit off everywhere else.
You have to take the BW quote with a grain of salt-after all, he is trying to sell turbos! The true reason of why there is so many billet options on the market is low production number turbos (its cheaper to cut billet than create a casting for low production) and the fact that billet is significantly stronger means you can get away smaller shank and blades-which was mentioned. PTE's billet wheels for example are MUCH thinner-and allow for more effective area. The PTE6266's inducer for example is only 1mm lager than a 35r, but because the Shank is almost 2mm thinner (and the turbine blades are also significantly thinner) you get much more effective area-and in turn a turbo that can flow 150 more CFM with the same or better spool characteristics. Not because it is lighter-its larger-heavier-but simply flows more air than the 35r at any given shaft speed.
The notion that it was for OE use is silly. A good friend is the lead tech at the local Truck (Semi) shop. He sees about 20-25 new rigs in the shop for service a week. I have asked him to take note of the turbos on the tucks for the past month. You know how many have come through with OE billet turbos? Zero. Obviously this is third hand info-but I also asked my local freightliner dealer-and he told me none of the trucks on his lot came with a billet turbo stock-but you can upgrade for a price
Also-saying they don't blow up in drag racing or at @ XXX psi is also silly-you know better than anyone-pressure vs flow. If you go to any event where turbo pro mod cars are running, you are all but guaranteed to see a turbo grenade due to the wild shaft speeds they run. Hell I think atomicfusion even narked a few turbos-one almost causing his car to burn down. He's not running anything near 120psi.
You have to take the BW quote with a grain of salt-after all, he is trying to sell turbos! The true reason of why there is so many billet options on the market is low production number turbos (its cheaper to cut billet than create a casting for low production) and the fact that billet is significantly stronger means you can get away smaller shank and blades-which was mentioned. PTE's billet wheels for example are MUCH thinner-and allow for more effective area. The PTE6266's inducer for example is only 1mm lager than a 35r, but because the Shank is almost 2mm thinner (and the turbine blades are also significantly thinner) you get much more effective area-and in turn a turbo that can flow 150 more CFM with the same or better spool characteristics. Not because it is lighter-its larger-heavier-but simply flows more air than the 35r at any given shaft speed.
The notion that it was for OE use is silly. A good friend is the lead tech at the local Truck (Semi) shop. He sees about 20-25 new rigs in the shop for service a week. I have asked him to take note of the turbos on the tucks for the past month. You know how many have come through with OE billet turbos? Zero. Obviously this is third hand info-but I also asked my local freightliner dealer-and he told me none of the trucks on his lot came with a billet turbo stock-but you can upgrade for a price
Also-saying they don't blow up in drag racing or at @ XXX psi is also silly-you know better than anyone-pressure vs flow. If you go to any event where turbo pro mod cars are running, you are all but guaranteed to see a turbo grenade due to the wild shaft speeds they run. Hell I think atomicfusion even narked a few turbos-one almost causing his car to burn down. He's not running anything near 120psi.