3 BAR MAP LS6 intake
05-19-2014, 07:23 PM
#21
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Efi source has very nice products. I have there 3 bar map and have no problems with it. Denmah tunes my car and has nothing but good to say about them. They are local to us also
05-19-2014, 07:54 PM
#22
Is that EFI Source 3 bar map sensor the one that comes on the diesel? I don't see a GM part number anywhere to look up the actual specs.
Most tuners don't like the old style 3 bar map sensors because they have an ~8% variance in high vacuum and high boost situations. Most of the newer sensors like the DPE Corvettes one or the ZR1 map sensor are within a couple of percent in those areas and have nice data available. The only problem with the ZR1 map sensor on a Gen3 PCM is that you can't put in negative numbers for the scalar so it will always be off by a tad not to mention it's not plug and play.
Most tuners don't like the old style 3 bar map sensors because they have an ~8% variance in high vacuum and high boost situations. Most of the newer sensors like the DPE Corvettes one or the ZR1 map sensor are within a couple of percent in those areas and have nice data available. The only problem with the ZR1 map sensor on a Gen3 PCM is that you can't put in negative numbers for the scalar so it will always be off by a tad not to mention it's not plug and play.
05-20-2014, 09:31 AM
#25
Nice! I knew they added the scalar to the non custom operating systems but didn't know they fixed the entry of negative numbers. Still the problem with the ZR1 sensor is that it doesn't fit in the manifold and the connector is different for all Gen3 PCMs so it's not a direct plug and play.
05-21-2014, 07:01 AM
#28
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Here is the PN to the EFI source MAP. I ordered one and sold the ZR1 sensor since it wasn't plug and play. I asked them for the parameters as well but they couldn't give me an answer.
SE-107
SE-107
05-21-2014, 09:49 AM
#29
That's just the EFI Source SKU number, what is the actual sensor part number? It should have an ac delco, gm part #, or Delphi part # so the actual datasheet can be looked up. I've yet to see a true 3 bar map sensor that is that style that has good accuracy through out with the correct range that goes all the way down to 10-20 kpa.
05-21-2014, 11:59 AM
#30
Dsteck will not tell you the numbers unless you buy his sensor. I know because I built my own, and asked for his help with the linear and offset. He responded and declined to tell me.
I calculated them from the transfer function. I am not convinced that calculation gives the correct offset.
Anyway, I'm using mine anyway.
So if anyone has Dsteck's sensor and would care to share those numbers with me in private, I'd like a sanity check of my values. I used the same Freescale 3 bar sensor he uses.
Ron
I calculated them from the transfer function. I am not convinced that calculation gives the correct offset.
Anyway, I'm using mine anyway.
So if anyone has Dsteck's sensor and would care to share those numbers with me in private, I'd like a sanity check of my values. I used the same Freescale 3 bar sensor he uses.
Ron
05-21-2014, 12:53 PM
#31
Also found where you explained how to calculate the values in the absence of having the transfer function.
I went back through the calculations both ways and found the source of my error and corrected it.
Given the fact that I've only used about half the scale thus far, my error wasn't all that significant.
Thanks
Ron
05-21-2014, 12:59 PM
#32
That's just the EFI Source SKU number, what is the actual sensor part number? It should have an ac delco, gm part #, or Delphi part # so the actual datasheet can be looked up. I've yet to see a true 3 bar map sensor that is that style that has good accuracy through out with the correct range that goes all the way down to 10-20 kpa.
05-21-2014, 01:17 PM
#33
I did that nearly 6 years ago with all of the available sensors at that time as well as dug up all of the datasheets from power & signal. To my knowledge those companies have not put out another factory style LS1 sensor either which means it's more than likely the old diesel sensor but a simple manufacturer part number would tell the tale. This obviously excludes the customized factory housings with the motorola parts inside like the ones from dpe corvettes and dsteck.
05-21-2014, 01:47 PM
#34
I did that nearly 6 years ago with all of the available sensors at that time as well as dug up all of the datasheets from power & signal. To my knowledge those companies have not put out another factory style LS1 sensor either which means it's more than likely the old diesel sensor but a simple manufacturer part number would tell the tale. This obviously excludes the customized factory housings with the motorola parts inside like the ones from dpe corvettes and dsteck.
As Dsteck noted in that discussion, it's basically a pain in the ***. And you need the correct potting compounds etc to seal it up etc.
With the effort involved, they aren't getting rich making these.
Ron
05-21-2014, 02:32 PM
#35
I took the stock sensor from my 5.3 apart and replaced the guts with a Freescale (Motorola) 20-304 kpa sensor. Found the info on the Corvette forum. With a background in microelectronics it wasn't hard for me. But it is tricky soldering. The sensor itself is $12.
As Dsteck noted in that discussion, it's basically a pain in the ***. And you need the correct potting compounds etc to seal it up etc.
With the effort involved, they aren't getting rich making these.
Ron
As Dsteck noted in that discussion, it's basically a pain in the ***. And you need the correct potting compounds etc to seal it up etc.
With the effort involved, they aren't getting rich making these.
Ron
05-21-2014, 03:38 PM
#36
I haven't downloaded the latest HPT SW yet. But if we really can enter neg offset in the custom 3 BAR OS, then the new GM sensor will be the one to use, even if it's not plug and play.
I only say that because it would have been through reliability testing.
Good read here.
Ron
I only say that because it would have been through reliability testing.
Good read here.
Ron
05-22-2014, 11:48 AM
#38
I haven't downloaded the latest HPT SW yet. But if we really can enter neg offset in the custom 3 BAR OS, then the new GM sensor will be the one to use, even if it's not plug and play.
I only say that because it would have been through reliability testing.
Good read here.
Ron
I only say that because it would have been through reliability testing.
Good read here.
Ron
1) You have to drill the hole out (12mm I believe) because the Bosch style sensor uses a larger nipple.
2) You need a wiring adapter or a new plug, and the new plug will cost you about $10 plus shipping in parts, plus you need the right crimpers if you want to do a good job (speaking from experience, the $20 crap W-crimpers are lousy and difficult compared to the $150 Kent-Moore ones).
Otherwise, let her rip. It's worth noting that the pin out is different too.
05-23-2014, 08:55 PM
#39
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Hey fellas, I was just wanting to advise you of the 2 bar maps.
I was pushing 27psi on the stock turbo on my Cobalt SS through HP tuners with E85/91 mixed at 50/50 with the stock 2 bar maps. I can email the file if you want to see some scaling from it. If you are having issues with plumbing the map hole and you want to use the 2 bar it is possible. I'm at work now but I can upload a tune file or PM it to people if you want. Just trying to help out.
I was pushing 27psi on the stock turbo on my Cobalt SS through HP tuners with E85/91 mixed at 50/50 with the stock 2 bar maps. I can email the file if you want to see some scaling from it. If you are having issues with plumbing the map hole and you want to use the 2 bar it is possible. I'm at work now but I can upload a tune file or PM it to people if you want. Just trying to help out.
05-23-2014, 09:28 PM
#40
There are two problems with the 12592525 MAP sensor.
1) You have to drill the hole out (12mm I believe) because the Bosch style sensor uses a larger nipple.
2) You need a wiring adapter or a new plug, and the new plug will cost you about $10 plus shipping in parts, plus you need the right crimpers if you want to do a good job (speaking from experience, the $20 crap W-crimpers are lousy and difficult compared to the $150 Kent-Moore ones).
Otherwise, let her rip. It's worth noting that the pin out is different too.
1) You have to drill the hole out (12mm I believe) because the Bosch style sensor uses a larger nipple.
2) You need a wiring adapter or a new plug, and the new plug will cost you about $10 plus shipping in parts, plus you need the right crimpers if you want to do a good job (speaking from experience, the $20 crap W-crimpers are lousy and difficult compared to the $150 Kent-Moore ones).
Otherwise, let her rip. It's worth noting that the pin out is different too.
I downloaded the latest version of HPT and verified that we can indeed now enter a neg value for offset. Very cool.