Procharger vs turbo (6 speed)
08-13-2014, 10:45 AM
#41
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Well for that power and a quick spool I would go with a single t4 t76 with a .81 ar exhaust housing. Just my .02, that being said it will start to run out of steam in the upper rpms. You'll catch all kinds of hate from people saying that the exhaust hosing is to small. But looking at the compressor map it looks like it will start making boost around 1800rpms and be rocking and rolling by 2800-3000.
08-13-2014, 10:59 AM
#42
Well for that power and a quick spool I would go with a single t4 t76 with a .81 ar exhaust housing. Just my .02, that being said it will start to run out of steam in the upper rpms. You'll catch all kinds of hate from people saying that the exhaust hosing is to small. But looking at the compressor map it looks like it will start making boost around 1800rpms and be rocking and rolling by 2800-3000.
08-13-2014, 11:53 AM
#43
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It all depends on how well your motor flows. But I'm "guessing" around 5500. And that is a guess. Let me just say that it will spool fast enough that you will have problems with traction. No matter what gears or trans you run on the street.
08-13-2014, 05:30 PM
#46
Not with a .81 hotside it won't. You need a .96 at a minimum to run out to stock ls1 redline. I wouldn't consider anything smaller than a 7665 with a .96 housing. Anything smaller just won't cut it from what I have seen on here.
08-13-2014, 06:34 PM
#47
from my experience with a t56, a tc76 (7668) with a .96ar exhaust housing will run out of steam and flatline at approx 5200 rpm at 14.5#s through a cammed 347 ci motor (granted cam selection has a role in this). full spool on the street occurs at approx 3200 rpm
here is a graph of 10# vs 14#, gained nearly 100 ftlbs (might have been more is if i started at the same lower rpm), and 12 hp.
although i wished it pulled farther up, it made for a hell of a fun car. i have driven multiple procharged cars that made similar hp (not torque obviously), and the power delivery on mine was much more violent. the car is very traction limited in 1st and 2nd even with a decent suspension and 325/40/18 drag radials
fyi, that is enough torque to complete grenade the guts of a t56 with good traction, so just a heads up. 4l80 time now and i have but havent installed a 1.15 ar housing to help it carry farther out, but the exhaust wheel is the bigger issue
linear gradual power, more manageable traction, snappier throttle response, more badass idle and part throttle noises = procharger
sudden violent power, tons of torque down low, "faster" is dependent on a number of variables but a small turbo car will certainly feel faster, more badass WOT noises = turbo
my .02
here is a graph of 10# vs 14#, gained nearly 100 ftlbs (might have been more is if i started at the same lower rpm), and 12 hp.
although i wished it pulled farther up, it made for a hell of a fun car. i have driven multiple procharged cars that made similar hp (not torque obviously), and the power delivery on mine was much more violent. the car is very traction limited in 1st and 2nd even with a decent suspension and 325/40/18 drag radials
fyi, that is enough torque to complete grenade the guts of a t56 with good traction, so just a heads up. 4l80 time now and i have but havent installed a 1.15 ar housing to help it carry farther out, but the exhaust wheel is the bigger issue
linear gradual power, more manageable traction, snappier throttle response, more badass idle and part throttle noises = procharger
sudden violent power, tons of torque down low, "faster" is dependent on a number of variables but a small turbo car will certainly feel faster, more badass WOT noises = turbo
my .02
08-13-2014, 06:48 PM
#48
from my experience with a t56, a tc76 (7668) with a .96ar exhaust housing will run out of steam and flatline at approx 5200 rpm at 14.5#s through a cammed 347 ci motor (granted cam selection has a role in this). full spool on the street occurs at approx 3200 rpm
here is a graph of 10# vs 14#, gained nearly 100 ftlbs (might have been more is if i started at the same lower rpm), and 12 hp.
although i wished it pulled farther up, it made for a hell of a fun car. i have driven multiple procharged cars that made similar hp (not torque obviously), and the power delivery on mine was much more violent. the car is very traction limited in 1st and 2nd even with a decent suspension and 325/40/18 drag radials
fyi, that is enough torque to complete grenade the guts of a t56 with good traction, so just a heads up. 4l80 time now and i have but havent installed a 1.15 ar housing to help it carry farther out, but the exhaust wheel is the bigger issue
linear gradual power, more manageable traction, snappier throttle response, more badass idle and part throttle noises = procharger
sudden violent power, tons of torque down low, "faster" is dependent on a number of variables but a small turbo car will certainly feel faster, more badass WOT noises = turbo
my .02
here is a graph of 10# vs 14#, gained nearly 100 ftlbs (might have been more is if i started at the same lower rpm), and 12 hp.
although i wished it pulled farther up, it made for a hell of a fun car. i have driven multiple procharged cars that made similar hp (not torque obviously), and the power delivery on mine was much more violent. the car is very traction limited in 1st and 2nd even with a decent suspension and 325/40/18 drag radials
fyi, that is enough torque to complete grenade the guts of a t56 with good traction, so just a heads up. 4l80 time now and i have but havent installed a 1.15 ar housing to help it carry farther out, but the exhaust wheel is the bigger issue
linear gradual power, more manageable traction, snappier throttle response, more badass idle and part throttle noises = procharger
sudden violent power, tons of torque down low, "faster" is dependent on a number of variables but a small turbo car will certainly feel faster, more badass WOT noises = turbo
my .02
Why do you say that will completely grenade a t56? Even a build t56 with cryo treated shafts?
08-13-2014, 06:53 PM
#49
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Ive ran my T56 at a lot more for a long time with stock gears.
T56's are very robust and can handle far above Tremec's quoted rating.
Failures would be far less common than reliable units.
T56's are very robust and can handle far above Tremec's quoted rating.
Failures would be far less common than reliable units.
08-13-2014, 07:19 PM
#50
Agreed, The T56 will hold quite a bit more power than people give it credit for. A common problem that people just seem to ignore is the lack of lubrication to the input shaft under load. Installing a simple trans pump has prolonged the life of many high HP T56's
08-13-2014, 07:25 PM
#52
9 Second Club
I've no pump, and never had a gear related problem.
Cheap fix to the oil movement problem is simply overfill the trans a little.
But a pump and oil directed towards the input shaft gear and maybe 3rd also certainly can't be a bad thing. Easy way to add a small trans cooler in too.
Only problems Ive had are basic wear and tear on shift mechanism parts, and ironically it was the uprated unit.
If you need better, the Magnum based units or Tranzilla are probably the best way forward at this present time.
Cheap fix to the oil movement problem is simply overfill the trans a little.
But a pump and oil directed towards the input shaft gear and maybe 3rd also certainly can't be a bad thing. Easy way to add a small trans cooler in too.
Only problems Ive had are basic wear and tear on shift mechanism parts, and ironically it was the uprated unit.
If you need better, the Magnum based units or Tranzilla are probably the best way forward at this present time.
08-13-2014, 08:15 PM
#53
Really a pump won't help a shattered input shaft. Torque generally takes care of that. If that is infact the failures he's seen. In his situation a 31 spline would have probably been the awnser. Some last some don't.. I was more referring to the heat starting at the input shaft portion of the trans and working its way to the 3rd/4th/5th gears in turn weakening the material and causing them to basically chew themselves apart.
Last edited by oscs; 08-13-2014 at 08:25 PM.
08-13-2014, 08:27 PM
#54
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I daily drive my procharged 6 speed and love it. Power is very predictable and having 630 ft/lb of torque at 4500 RPM is a blast. Have to have the right pulley setup and make sure you have no belt slip. My power comes in quick and hard.
08-13-2014, 08:31 PM
#55
I've no pump, and never had a gear related problem. Cheap fix to the oil movement problem is simply overfill the trans a little. But a pump and oil directed towards the input shaft gear and maybe 3rd also certainly can't be a bad thing. Easy way to add a small trans cooler in too. Only problems Ive had are basic wear and tear on shift mechanism parts, and ironically it was the uprated unit. If you need better, the Magnum based units or Tranzilla are probably the best way forward at this present time.
Personally I don't think a cooler would help much as most of the failures I've seen are quick and of complete lack of fluid all together. Although I can't see it hurting. Glad to hear yours is holding up though. That gives me hope when I beat on mine.
Last edited by oscs; 08-13-2014 at 08:37 PM.
08-13-2014, 09:10 PM
#56
mine lasted 114k miles of straight *** whooping, 108k bone stock, last 6k with upgraded shifting components. hundreds of track passes and thousands of street passes, i have no complaints at all. my failure was a direct result of torque and traction, no signs of heat issues. one week after completely upgrading my rear suspension, WOT 2-3 shift at 5500 rpm, not enough rpm to break the tires loose, and something else broke loose...
just saying 600+ftlbs on a stock-hardpart t56 and traction, dont be angry if it breaks
08-13-2014, 10:38 PM
#57
i certainly agree they can hold more power, some last, and some dont. i put together a car that did just shy of 800 rwhp on a mustang dyno on a completely stock unopened t56 and its still together
mine lasted 114k miles of straight *** whooping, 108k bone stock, last 6k with upgraded shifting components. hundreds of track passes and thousands of street passes, i have no complaints at all. my failure was a direct result of torque and traction, no signs of heat issues. one week after completely upgrading my rear suspension, WOT 2-3 shift at 5500 rpm, not enough rpm to break the tires loose, and something else broke loose...
just saying 600+ftlbs on a stock-hardpart t56 and traction, dont be angry if it breaks
mine lasted 114k miles of straight *** whooping, 108k bone stock, last 6k with upgraded shifting components. hundreds of track passes and thousands of street passes, i have no complaints at all. my failure was a direct result of torque and traction, no signs of heat issues. one week after completely upgrading my rear suspension, WOT 2-3 shift at 5500 rpm, not enough rpm to break the tires loose, and something else broke loose...
just saying 600+ftlbs on a stock-hardpart t56 and traction, dont be angry if it breaks
08-13-2014, 10:40 PM
#58
i certainly agree they can hold more power, some last, and some dont. i put together a car that did just shy of 800 rwhp on a mustang dyno on a completely stock unopened t56 and its still together
mine lasted 114k miles of straight *** whooping, 108k bone stock, last 6k with upgraded shifting components. hundreds of track passes and thousands of street passes, i have no complaints at all. my failure was a direct result of torque and traction, no signs of heat issues. one week after completely upgrading my rear suspension, WOT 2-3 shift at 5500 rpm, not enough rpm to break the tires loose, and something else broke loose...
just saying 600+ftlbs on a stock-hardpart t56 and traction, dont be angry if it breaks
mine lasted 114k miles of straight *** whooping, 108k bone stock, last 6k with upgraded shifting components. hundreds of track passes and thousands of street passes, i have no complaints at all. my failure was a direct result of torque and traction, no signs of heat issues. one week after completely upgrading my rear suspension, WOT 2-3 shift at 5500 rpm, not enough rpm to break the tires loose, and something else broke loose...
just saying 600+ftlbs on a stock-hardpart t56 and traction, dont be angry if it breaks
Well said, thanks for posting that picture. Im always curious to see different T56 failures as im attempting to throw a lot of power at a stock unit in hopes of it holding together.
08-13-2014, 11:01 PM
#59
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Were getting off subject but just order a T-56 Magnum rated at 900+RWTQ with sprayers installed/pump and it has 1 year parts warranty. DONE. Unless you plan on 1000+
When the funds come in I'm planning on going supercharged, not only for the instant power and little noise with helical cut gears but just to not have what everyone else has...turbo. It would be nice to break some hearts.
When the funds come in I'm planning on going supercharged, not only for the instant power and little noise with helical cut gears but just to not have what everyone else has...turbo. It would be nice to break some hearts.