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Hey guys so I am probably again beating a subject to death but I finally got my fbody oil pan and I am ready to install it to my motor but before I do that I wanna get a bung weled onto the oil pan for a oil drain. What size should I run considering I will eventually run a turbo setup such as a ON3. I was looking at a -10 Jegs part# 555-15264 http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performan...52742/10002/-1
Just want to get that taken care of while the engine is out.
Big single turbo I would do at least a -12AN. This is one of those things you really can't go to big on (within reason.) With that said I run (2) -10AN lines on my low mounted twin setup with no return issues.
I've never seen an oil drain situation in which a -10 was inadequate. Lots of people like to run -12, but I've NEVER heard of anyone with a -10 needing more.
I've never seen an oil drain situation in which a -10 was inadequate. Lots of people like to run -12, but I've NEVER heard of anyone with a -10 needing more. Jack
I have. That's why I suggested it. Not to mention all the guys that run restrictors on journal bearing turbos. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those issues can be solved with better/bigger drains. In a perfect world where your turbo is mounted high up and has a straight shot to the pan than a -10AN would likely always work. Unfortunately in the real world where turbos are placed where they fit. Multiple 90 degree bends/humps and tight spaces force people to get creative.
Holset HX35/40 series call out 19mm ID drain line in the manual (3/4"). BW S400's have the same diameter oil drains. I run 3/4 on all my builds. Usually end up using copper tubing for the true 3/4 ID.
For the best possible gravity drain you should measure the drain ID on your turbo and not go any smaller than that IMO.
You get into problems with cheap china AN fittings. Here is a AN12 fitting. Using a 3/4" threaded T6 S400 drain. As you can see the ID of the fitting is no where near 3/4".
Here is a "push lock" AN12... same problem!
I use the threaded 3/4 T6 drain with copper tubing. Then solder them together. Never had one leak...yet. I use an unrestricted -4AN line as a feed on all my stuff.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 10, 2014 at 01:35 PM.
I have ran a single -10an with two 90 degree bends no issue. However I did make a small restristor for my turbo feed since I used a -4an line. its actually pretty simple to make a restrictor if need be. I took a -4an fitting, drilled it out the size of a nitrous jet, then ground the end of the -4an fitting, slid the jet in place then tightened the line down. I believe I opened the jet up with a 1/8" drill bit also.
Good to know forcefed, I was thinking of making my line out of copper as well since my return is in the front cover and its so close to the belt. Having a tough time finding anything that will stay far enough away for my liking.
Also I hear ya on the china AN fittings. I believe the common JIC steel fittings are similar.
I have ran a single -10an with two 90 degree bends no issue. However I did make a small restristor for my turbo feed since I used a -4an line. its actually pretty simple to make a restrictor if need be. I took a -4an fitting, drilled it out the size of a nitrous jet, then ground the end of the -4an fitting, slid the jet in place then tightened the line down. I believe I opened the jet up with a 1/8" drill bit also.
Jay
Not a good idea IMO for a journal bearing turbo. Especially if your just randomly picking a restricted orifice size. Personally I would never restrict a journal bearing turbo unless there were some odd over pressure/flow circumstance.
You should have "X" amount of flow per min through the turbo at idle and WOT. Unfortunately a lot of turbos these days don't have a proper service manual. If they did, you would see the required feed/drain sizes as well as the pressure requirements and flow requirements through the center section.
For example... this is straight out of a HX35 FSM.
...
11. Oil return pipes are permitted to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.
... 14. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2). 15. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.
Installation Data
1. Mount the turbocharger on the turbine inlet flange. All other connections must be flexible and heavy pipework
should be supported. Always pre-lube with clean engine oil.
2. Always position the bearing housing so that the oil drain is at the bottom and kept within 22° of the vertical centre
line when installed on the engine.
3. Oil should be filtered below 15/20 microns. The oil quality must be as specified by the engine manufacturer.
e.g. API - CD (MIL - L - 2104C). Improvement in life can be obtained by using super high performance diesel
(SPHD) oils, particularly where extended oil drain periods are used.
4. Oil pressure must show at the turbocharger oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to
turbocharger bearing system from lack of lubrication. 5. The minimum oil pressure, when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa [2.0 kgf/cm2, 30 lbf/in2] and pressures up
to 415 kPa [4.0 kgf/cm2, 60 lb/in2] are satisfactory. Under idling conditions the pressure should not fall below 70 kPa
[0.7 kgf/cm2. 10lbf/in2]. 6. The oil inlet pipe should be 9.5 mm [0.375 in.] bore minimum and the oil drain pipe should be 19 mm [0.75 in.] bore
minimum. The oil must drain downwards by gravity from the turbocharger into the engine under all operating
conditions.
So if minimum flow is 3 litre/min at WOT. Then if you run a 1/16" restrictor when the manual calls out for an 1/8" feed, I'd bet your service life will be greatly reduced.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 10, 2014 at 03:09 PM.
Just stating what worked for me. This was a Garret T6 Turbo from a Detroit diesels. First setup only had one 90 degree and blew oil like crazy wot. Made a restictor and never had an issue again. Also I was running 20W-50 and around 80psi WOT on my lt1 setup
Just stating what worked for me. This was a Garret T6 Turbo from a Detroit diesels. First setup only had one 90 degree and blew oil like crazy wot. Made a restictor and never had an issue again. Also I was running 20W-50 and around 80psi WOT on my lt1 setup
Jay
My turbo is also a Garrett T6 from a diesel. It did the same exact thing. Unrestricted 4AN blew clouds upon clouds of smoke. So I put a 0.060" ristrictor in it. Never smokes at any point besides high rpm decel.
Not a good idea IMO for a journal bearing turbo. Especially if your just randomly picking a restricted orifice size. Personally I would never restrict a journal bearing turbo unless there were some odd over pressure/flow circumstance. You should have "X" amount of flow per min through the turbo at idle and WOT. Unfortunately a lot of turbos these days don't have a proper service manual. If they did, you would see the required feed/drain sizes as well as the pressure requirements and flow requirements through the center section. For example... this is straight out of a HX35 FSM. So if minimum flow is 3 litre/min at WOT and you throw run a 1/16" restrictor when the manual calls out for an 1/8" feed, I'm betting your service life will be greatly reduced.
Seems to be a difficult concept for some people to wrap their minds around. I guess it's easier/cheaper to shove a restrictor in the feed line rather than run a properly sized drain.
^ and also not every setup can fit a giant 1"+ outside diameter hose, when running FULL accessories. Jay
I was being facetious. Although I'm sure there are some extreme cases. I would venture to say that many more times than not there is a way to get a properly sized drain attached. As some may recall (this discussion has been brought up many times) I disagree with restricting a journal bearing turbo. I think a restrictor is a temporary easy way out. My .02 anyways. Take it with a grain of salt.
Bottom line is force fed is right. I would match your drain line ID with the orifice size of your drain if space allows.
Just throwing my .02 out there on an ideal setup. That isn’t always an option I know.
In the import world it’s very popular to use the Holset turbos. Members ran into smoking problems trying to use the factory 1/2” (or smaller) drain lines with Holsets. Restricting the feed was the answer for years. Many damaged turbos later someone eventually dug out a Holset manual. We were all very surprised by the minimum flow and drain requirements . One of the popular turbo re-builders in the DSM world claimed he “lost all his business” once the correct supply and drain lines were used
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 11, 2014 at 09:26 AM.
With hondas and ebay turbos I've always used a restrict or and a -4 feed line. With a 1/2" npt × 3/4" barb screwed into a 1/2" npt fitting. I also have always used the same on the oil pan. (No welding required that way) And used a 3/4" Braided line with hose camps on it. Have never had a problem. Did the same with my holset on my honda. But........ hondas also run much higher oil psi at 8k than most lsx do. That being said I'm gonna probably run -4 feed lines and the 3/4" return lines like I have always done with so many hondas b4. But with no restrictor in the feed line for my lq4.
Thanks for all the input everyone. I am gonna call and see if I can get a true inside measurement on the fitting I was looking at.. My 2nd question is were on the pan is a good place to have it welded into.. I have seen some above the drain plug towards the top above the oil level.. I really appreciate all the input, I would rather do all this before the motor is in the car making everything a pain in the ***
Thanks for all the input everyone. I am gonna call and see if I can get a true inside measurement on the fitting I was looking at.. My 2nd question is were on the pan is a good place to have it welded into.. I have seen some above the drain plug towards the top above the oil level.. I really appreciate all the input, I would rather do all this before the motor is in the car making everything a pain in the ***
Relatively high up on the pan (above the level of oil.) The goal is to provide zero resistance for the return oil.
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What size oil drain bung 
