You seriously didn't read his posts? He went to a lot of effort to try and educate you further. My guess is you did read them, but because it was damning to your dyno numbers, you're choosing to ignore them. That or you just don't have the information he inquired about. For someone that is supposedly a world class tuner, your professionalism is shaky at best.

Again, you speak as if we are all just jealous or haters of your build... and again you are incorrect. All we basically wanted to see was some backing up of your numbers with track times and for you to see the light that the printout of your "record breaking" dyno sheet is inaccurate. I think the majority of the "haters" as you call us have all actually paid compliment to your accomplishments and have appreciated what you've done with the build. What is frustrating is that you refuse to believe what countless experts, professionals, published literature, and probably even god if you had a way to speak to him, are telling you about the impossibility of what your dyno has reported. You weren't wrong; the tool was. However, you can't seem to believe that it was wrong for some reason or another. Seemingly because other cars on the same dyno received much more accurate results and then backed them up at the track. Which is still what we're waiting for you to do. Let's not forget that you are the one that brought these dyno sheets to light and immediately threw your name onto the Record List as basically some "new guy from the DSM world that can tune a budget built wooden log to run with nitro boats". You stirred the pot right from the beginning, and if you didn't know what sort of **** storm it would cause, then you're not nearly as smart as you claim to be.

In your other thread you have spoke about being afraid of dying by running the same tune at the track as what was run on the record breaking dyno run (though now I'm not sure if that tune still exists based on these findings of how you don't datalog ****). Regardless, in the same thread you've begun speaking about running more mile per hour and better E.T. Does this mean the fear of dying is no longer there? That you're going to actually run the boost we are wanting to see? Just wondering if that's going to be an excuse again if (when) the car doesn't back up the numbers the next time you run again. I trust that you'll keep us posted.

/end "Hater" response.

 

No, it will go faster if I simply rev it higher with no increase in boost. I had no tach before, so I had no idea when I should have been shifting. It seems like you where not reading....

Torqueshaft brought a lot of new info to the table-which was great! At the end of the day, his math, and ForceFed's math both confirm that the WHP numbers are about right if the CHP at one TRUE bar was int he 370-380chp area. I feel with a free flowing exhaust, no accessories, a great tune, 110+octane fuel and the timing you can add with it, coupled with turbos helping air move through a very restrictive stock intake, this is an achievable number. The only real argument is there.

You either think the car makes the same as a stock motor with stock tune, with full accessories, sucking air through a stock intake-in which case the numbers dont work, or you think the motor is breathing slightly better, in which case the math confirms the whp results.


I appreciate all of the discussion. I don't mind the feed back;positive, negative, or pure hatred, no matter where or why it comes. I know budget build on this scale of all out cheapness rub a lot of people the wrong way. I will still do what I do, and love every minute of it.

 

 

My thought process didn’t involve WHP. “The Equation” is just a quick and dirty guess of what could be possible under ideal conditions at the crank. As has been said, you’ll never hit those numbers. You’re original figures weren’t even possible at the crank under these ideal conditions… much less at the wheels.

Since we’ve elevated from 19 to possibly 23-24+ lbs peak and from 870+ to 850whp. 850 crank may have been possible. Since we have no real clue what kind of boost you were making glancing at an inaccurate mechanical boost gauge, we’ll never know I guess. Your 10% drive train loss is pretty optimistic as well. ...but again that argument is opinion and will go nowhere.


No. I wouldn’t agree with this. Anytime you add boost the curve and peak will move to the right. They won’t move more than 100% per bar regardless of the turbo size. Changing the cam shaft alters the volume of air the engine can ingest. A turbo cannot do this, so it's a poor comparison.

I still firmly believe you are WAY overestimating your stock LS1’s crank HP. JY 6.0’s with an aftermarket cam are lucky to be making 25hp per psi. Yet you think your making 27hp per psi with the stock cam at relatively low rpm. IMO, no way in hell 400chp is happening with your motor.

Since that’s an opinion I don’t think we need to argue it any further. Unless you want to put your car back on the dyno without the charge piping and do an NA pull… we’ll never know.

 

You seriously just did that? He gave you facts, and math that backed it all up, and reasons why your numbers cannot work and your reply is "too much to read"??? You remind me of a x-girlfriend. Just pure insanity and immaturity.

 

OMG NO it does not! Thats NOT what he said! Oh yea you didnt read it!!

Again, NO it is not.

And 1 more time, NO it is not. You did not read what he wrote and answered no questions asked. On every number he didnt know (and which you refused to provide) he gave you the great benefit of the doubt. Even giving you ONLY 10% drivetrain loss which he estimates real world numbers of 14-18%.

Simply put, you are a egotistical self centered moron that you believe by avoiding reading a reply means it didnt happen and you can continue on your path of self righteousness.

 

Funny, you remind me of my Ex-Girlfriend, that no matter how many times I told her we were done, she kept coming back asking me to ****.











As I said, I appreciate all of the work TorqueShaft and ForceFed have put into this (and give toque major props on raising 6 kids, the real accomplishment here!), and hopefully at the end of the day people have learned the math behind the maddess of forced induction. But, at the end fo the day-the only real disagreement is what my motor would make at a true one bar.

If you think a full exhaust/intake/tune LS1 on 110 octane with added timing at sea level would make less than 350 crank HP, then yes I agree my numbers don't make sense.


If you think exhaust/intake/tune LS1 on 110 octane with added timing at sea level would make 375+Crank HP, then the numbers add up, and the only argument is correction factor.


You my think I am crazy, but I simply think my exhaust/intake/tune LS1 on 110 octane with added timing at sea level would make 375+Crank HP.

 

On that page they list:
100% stock LS1 - Dyno Tuning Tom Pfeifer - Knoxville, TN
and the dyno sheet shows 330whp and 350wtq

330whp * 2.5 bar = 825whp

You kind of proved his point for him with this right?

 

I have a hard believing that bone stock LS1 took over 30 psi of boost.

 

1 bar of my calculation is atmosphere.

So its 22psi (1.5 bar) + atmosphere (1 bar). <---PSIA

psig - Measures pressure referenced to local atmospheric pressure and is vented to the atmosphere.

psia - Measures pressure referenced to an absolute vacuum, hermetically sealed at 0 PSIA.

 

Not really. Mostly because we don't know the specifics. Also, it's a Dynojet, which isn't an inaccurate representative of real world power to start with.

Couple other points.

Tom P's engine in question was a 2002 SS camaro. Which was rated at a higher 325hp VS the OP's 305hp rating.

Another thing the OP doesn't understand is the turbo itself is more of a restriction exhaust wise than an OEM exhaust system. Of course once boost comes online, it will overcome this restriction easily. That doesn't change the fact that having a turbo at the end of your manifolds affects mass flow/ volume passing through the engine per atmosphere. The diameter at the end of the volute in the exhaust housings is TINY. Also the exhaust wheel itself is a huge restriction.