Procharger buddies please help . At a loss here.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,462
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From: Amsterdam Ny, the good part
Don't have hp tuners. The tuner said boost builds at 4 to 5 psi at 5500 the. Drops off
I'm working on getting the procharger supplied hard line run to the bypass valve. Right now I have the small 1/8 inch vacuum line I had used with my procharger pro flow valve.
I just don't believe it belt slip. The belts a fleet belt. It's tight and the tensioner is tight on it.
I'm working on getting the procharger supplied hard line run to the bypass valve. Right now I have the small 1/8 inch vacuum line I had used with my procharger pro flow valve.
I just don't believe it belt slip. The belts a fleet belt. It's tight and the tensioner is tight on it.
Have you pulled the vacuum line off the bypass to see if it closes all the way with no vacuum pulling on it ? Also to add to what "Mike 02TA" said are you seeing the boost drop on HP tuner VIA the MAP sensor or on a boost gauge ? I had my 8 year old boost gauge go bad on me last summer. Gauge would only show 2psi of boost and -10 vac. $100 later for a new gauge and I had 8#'s of boost and -20 vac again.
Thanks man... Second time around is always better
Thanks man... Second time around is always better
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 75
From: Amsterdam Ny, the good part
so i retested the intercooler piping in two pieces , sc outlet to the intercooler , and then intercooler to tb , both tested perfect and held pressure with no loss .
So the next step was getting a good vacuum source for the 1/4 inch hard plastic air line .I tapped into the brake booster line and tested it out this morning.
I did a second gear pull as my tuner said to try and it held right at 9.5 lbs ,l i tried this twice and it holds boost until i let off or shift.
I am going to try once more tonight on the way home from work to be sure but i think the race valve was opening up .
Now the question is since i have a new belt and the tensioner is tight should i take the procharger back off and put the 3.0 pulley on from the 3.4 i have now ?
So the next step was getting a good vacuum source for the 1/4 inch hard plastic air line .I tapped into the brake booster line and tested it out this morning.
I did a second gear pull as my tuner said to try and it held right at 9.5 lbs ,l i tried this twice and it holds boost until i let off or shift.
I am going to try once more tonight on the way home from work to be sure but i think the race valve was opening up .
Now the question is since i have a new belt and the tensioner is tight should i take the procharger back off and put the 3.0 pulley on from the 3.4 i have now ?
If you are geting good boost #'s with the new intercooler setup then I think you have found the culprit. Id try the smaller pulley and make sure you dont have belt slip with it. If all is good then its time to take it to the tuner again.
I was going to say pull the vac line off the surge valve, see if you have boost
I also had a problem losing boost, a pipe would pull out of a coupling, and when I let up the pipe would go back in, so I didn't see it-on a dyno I could see what was happening
I also had a problem losing boost, a pipe would pull out of a coupling, and when I let up the pipe would go back in, so I didn't see it-on a dyno I could see what was happening
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Amsterdam Ny, the good part
so i tested it after work yesterday and it was infact a no good vacuum source .
MORAL OF THE STORY , IF YOU HAVE A RACE VALVE GET A DAMN GOOD VACUUM/BOOST SOURCE.
Im going to take the 3.4 off and put the 3.0 back on and hope to make about 550 out of my stock ls1 . Im looking for 120+ trap speeds .
So glad i didnt just send the procharger out to be upgraded and then would of had this problem after i didnt want to have it upgraded .
MORAL OF THE STORY , IF YOU HAVE A RACE VALVE GET A DAMN GOOD VACUUM/BOOST SOURCE.
Im going to take the 3.4 off and put the 3.0 back on and hope to make about 550 out of my stock ls1 . Im looking for 120+ trap speeds .
So glad i didnt just send the procharger out to be upgraded and then would of had this problem after i didnt want to have it upgraded .
so i tested it after work yesterday and it was infact a no good vacuum source .
MORAL OF THE STORY , IF YOU HAVE A RACE VALVE GET A DAMN GOOD VACUUM/BOOST SOURCE.
Im going to take the 3.4 off and put the 3.0 back on and hope to make about 550 out of my stock ls1 . Im looking for 120+ trap speeds .
So glad i didnt just send the procharger out to be upgraded and then would of had this problem after i didnt want to have it upgraded .
MORAL OF THE STORY , IF YOU HAVE A RACE VALVE GET A DAMN GOOD VACUUM/BOOST SOURCE.
Im going to take the 3.4 off and put the 3.0 back on and hope to make about 550 out of my stock ls1 . Im looking for 120+ trap speeds .
So glad i didnt just send the procharger out to be upgraded and then would of had this problem after i didnt want to have it upgraded .
On a side note, I kinda thought the race valves spring pressure was only to get the valve to close at 0 psi. Once that happens the blower can actually start making positive mani pressure and send it to the race valves diaphragm via the vacuum line. This positive air pressure coupled with the springs mechanical pressure helps to keep the valve fully closed against opposing forces. If that makes sense.
Last edited by JRENIGAR; Jul 11, 2015 at 01:01 PM.
Glad you figured it out. I found out there is a check valve in the vacuum line right next to where it goes into the black a/c box on the firewall. It only allows vacuum to the air duct for a/c operation but wont let positive pressure through. I bought a tee fitting and tapped into the line right before it gets to that little valve. I actually feel like an idiot that I didnt catch your problem. I probably could have helped you figure it out days ago. My apologies.
Wish I read through this thread earlier as well.
Was the 1st thing I thought of when I read through the first page of thread.
DAMN, $468 bucks for a new seal?
I sent in my D1SC to be inspected because I was selling off my kit to build a Turbo setup. They found the seal was leaking and threw a new one in there for no charge.
It was like $75 total plus shipping to and from.
I'm glad you figured it out though. At least you're all set now with a good head unit that's ready to roll.
I sent in my D1SC to be inspected because I was selling off my kit to build a Turbo setup. They found the seal was leaking and threw a new one in there for no charge.
It was like $75 total plus shipping to and from.
I'm glad you figured it out though. At least you're all set now with a good head unit that's ready to roll.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Amsterdam Ny, the good part
Yeah I'm happy it's fixed. Got a new mighty mouse pcv catch can installed. The 3.0 pulley back on. Going to the tuner for the 4th or 5th time tomorrow night.
At home depot in the pipe and fitting aisle they have 3" pipe stoppers. They are black and red with a hand turn at the top to spread the black rubber to.make a seal in the pipe your testing. I got two of those and a bike tire air valve
I'll get some pics.
At home depot in the pipe and fitting aisle they have 3" pipe stoppers. They are black and red with a hand turn at the top to spread the black rubber to.make a seal in the pipe your testing. I got two of those and a bike tire air valve
I'll get some pics.
How did you hook your catch can up? I did it according to the instructions from Mighty Mouse but I haven't pulled any oil into the can yet. I've put about 3K miles on it and not even a drop.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 75
From: Amsterdam Ny, the good part
i have a ls1 pcv with ls6 intake . I have the pcv catch can
I have a hose from each valve cover to the can , so two ins on the car , then the pcv valve out to the intake manifold . Then the left over valve cover port on the pass side goes to a barb in front of the procharger .
Then the port on the tb is capped . i have a stock throttle body .
But that's how i was told to do it . I also had the option to block the one port on the drivers side , the rear passenger and use a larger single line from the oil fill cap to the can . Then all the other stuff is the same .
I have a hose from each valve cover to the can , so two ins on the car , then the pcv valve out to the intake manifold . Then the left over valve cover port on the pass side goes to a barb in front of the procharger .
Then the port on the tb is capped . i have a stock throttle body .
But that's how i was told to do it . I also had the option to block the one port on the drivers side , the rear passenger and use a larger single line from the oil fill cap to the can . Then all the other stuff is the same .
Launching!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 267
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From: Chicago
Background
99 formula , manual trans , built rear . p1sc1 , ls6 intake , headers and full exhaust , water meth injection , btr 660 springs , hardened pushrods.
The car was fine the last two years with 3.5 inch dual intercoolers. Alternator went bad in October so since i have a sdce tensioner and its a pita to work with so i decided to go to a fmic and drop to a 3.0 pulley and go to 50 50 methanol and water from windshield washer fluid .
So i bring the car to the tuner last week , he calls it makes 6 lbs and 450 hp , two years previous it made 499 hp .
I get the car and pressure test the intercooler and piping . I have a leaky intercooler . I buy a new eBay intercooler and install it , pressure test it all again and it holds 18lbs .
At this point my tuner thought the procharger needed to be freshened so i sent it out since it was leaking from the seal . Procharger changed a seal and i think thats it , to the tune of $468 bucks .
So now i put it back in bring it up last Sunday , he calls Monday no power its belt is slipping . Okay so i pick it up retension the sdce to 20 and bring it back up that night .
Tuesday he calls and its still slipping made 6 lbs first pull then 2 each time when it was hot .
So i go it on Tuesday , order a new gates green belt , get pissed and want the car to just work so i put the 3.4 pulley back on and a 51inch belt .
51 inches and a 3.4 is where i made 499 and 9lbs at 6200 2 years ago.
The belt is so tight i needed to spin the engine over by hand to thread it on .
Thats just how it was two years ago .
So Thursday i get the belt on , retension the sdce to like 22 , i bring it up Thursday night and he dynos it today .
No go i made 5 lbs of boost or 4 at 5500 and then it tapers to 1 lb at 6400 .
He thinks no belt slip along with me bc the belt is a gates fleet belt , its wicked tight and it makes 5 lbs each time at 5500. But always tapers to 1 at redline .
He took the vacuum source off the big red race valve so all the air would go to the engine and same thing . So like i assume that's good too.
My tuner swears its the procharger , but procharger says that's not possible , it must be belt slip . But be both feel its not belt slip . It didn't slip two years ago with the 51 belt and 3.4 pulley .
Where could i be losing boost , he said he checked all the joints with soap and i use t bolt clamps at each connection .
He said he has seen first hand two p1sc1 have boost issues and get upgraded to d1 and then be fine . Procharger assures me that its gear driven and as long as its spun it makes power.
So he wants me to send it to procharger to be upgraded , i just dont think its possoibe it could be back and it cant be belt slip . What the hell else can i check . Im freaking lost and still havent floored the car this year.
99 formula , manual trans , built rear . p1sc1 , ls6 intake , headers and full exhaust , water meth injection , btr 660 springs , hardened pushrods.
The car was fine the last two years with 3.5 inch dual intercoolers. Alternator went bad in October so since i have a sdce tensioner and its a pita to work with so i decided to go to a fmic and drop to a 3.0 pulley and go to 50 50 methanol and water from windshield washer fluid .
So i bring the car to the tuner last week , he calls it makes 6 lbs and 450 hp , two years previous it made 499 hp .
I get the car and pressure test the intercooler and piping . I have a leaky intercooler . I buy a new eBay intercooler and install it , pressure test it all again and it holds 18lbs .
At this point my tuner thought the procharger needed to be freshened so i sent it out since it was leaking from the seal . Procharger changed a seal and i think thats it , to the tune of $468 bucks .
So now i put it back in bring it up last Sunday , he calls Monday no power its belt is slipping . Okay so i pick it up retension the sdce to 20 and bring it back up that night .
Tuesday he calls and its still slipping made 6 lbs first pull then 2 each time when it was hot .
So i go it on Tuesday , order a new gates green belt , get pissed and want the car to just work so i put the 3.4 pulley back on and a 51inch belt .
51 inches and a 3.4 is where i made 499 and 9lbs at 6200 2 years ago.
The belt is so tight i needed to spin the engine over by hand to thread it on .
Thats just how it was two years ago .
So Thursday i get the belt on , retension the sdce to like 22 , i bring it up Thursday night and he dynos it today .
No go i made 5 lbs of boost or 4 at 5500 and then it tapers to 1 lb at 6400 .
He thinks no belt slip along with me bc the belt is a gates fleet belt , its wicked tight and it makes 5 lbs each time at 5500. But always tapers to 1 at redline .
He took the vacuum source off the big red race valve so all the air would go to the engine and same thing . So like i assume that's good too.
My tuner swears its the procharger , but procharger says that's not possible , it must be belt slip . But be both feel its not belt slip . It didn't slip two years ago with the 51 belt and 3.4 pulley .
Where could i be losing boost , he said he checked all the joints with soap and i use t bolt clamps at each connection .
He said he has seen first hand two p1sc1 have boost issues and get upgraded to d1 and then be fine . Procharger assures me that its gear driven and as long as its spun it makes power.
So he wants me to send it to procharger to be upgraded , i just dont think its possoibe it could be back and it cant be belt slip . What the hell else can i check . Im freaking lost and still havent floored the car this year.
What is the pipe size are you using? I bought a front mount from eBay, I used 2.5 inch piping and I made no boost. None....
I took off the front mount and mounted my 3.5 inch coolers, back to normal man.
Here is the deal, you're dual intercooler kit has two 2.5 inch piping, the area of flow is twice that than a single 2.5 inch pipes. To equal the area of the stock daul 2.5 inch pipes, you need a single 4 inch pipe. I know people use 3 inch pipes, which is ok, but still not the same to the combined area of flow, for the daul 2.5 inch pipe. Cross sectional area is important.
The front mount I bought, mounted under my air dam, it fit like a glove, it was awesome actually where I mounted it, and I used a single 2.5 inch pipe. And I got no boost. None... It killed my car.
Also check for holes in the hoses. I had a GN, I could not figure why it could not build boost for weeks. Then I found a hidden hole in one of my hoses...
This is why I am against a frount mount that uses a single 3 inch pipe, even though I know others don't have problems. Procharger engineered the system like that for a reason. To macth the flow capability of the two 2.5 inch pipes, you really need a single 4 inch pipe. Do the math, cross sectional area formula. 3.14xR^2 .
The combined cross sectional area of two 2.5 inch pipes is 10 in^2, for a single 3 in pipe is 7 in^2 and for a 4 inch pipe is 12 in^2..
By going to a single 3 inch pipe, you loose 3 in square of area.
I took fluid dynamics, it takes a lot of force trying to force air through an inadequate cross sectional area. Again, even though others don't have problems with a 3 inch pipe. However you do loose 3 in square of cross sectional area.
Last edited by stage274; Aug 1, 2015 at 04:19 AM.