Is water-methanol really flamable?
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TECH Enthusiast
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From: Gold Country California
Exactly,
My wife walked into the dark garage and saw the blue flame ....
said," WTF are you doing now". I didn't even try to explain it.
I have to report MY 50/50 did light with a match. I mixed it with equal volumes of Meth & distilled water. It burned. Not to say brake fluid or any other fluid found under the hood wouldn't do the same .... But 50/50 certainly burns.
My wife walked into the dark garage and saw the blue flame ....
said," WTF are you doing now". I didn't even try to explain it.
I have to report MY 50/50 did light with a match. I mixed it with equal volumes of Meth & distilled water. It burned. Not to say brake fluid or any other fluid found under the hood wouldn't do the same .... But 50/50 certainly burns.
Ok, some science, compliance, legality lessons...
First off flammability has two meanings, one is a legal term to based on the temperature at which the liquid will produce enough vapor to burn. This is based on not only the percentage of organic to aqueous, but also the type of organic solvent. The other is the scientific term which technically everything is flammable, it is just temperature dependent. Flammability for transport is determined at a specific temperature. For DOT regulations, flammability is anything that generates enough vapors to ignite, at 80 degrees F. 50/50 meth/water is about 75 degrees, so that's why you see 49/51 as the highest you can ship. Also that's why you can't take 100 proof or higher alcohol on a plane.
The big difference you need to remember with different flammabilities isn't so much when or if it will catch on fire, but how much heat will it generate when it burns.
Take a quart of methanol and a quart of gasoline and light both on fire, the gasoline will burn much hotter than the methanol... same is true for brake fluid and trans fluid and oil. Bust an oiler cooler line and have it hit the exhaust, and it will burn the car down.
One gallon of 50/50 methanol is far less of a concern to me than a gasoline or oil fire. Methanol evaporates so quickly, that a majority of it will evaporate before it can burn.
I'm not only a chemist, but I also do hazmat, and I worry far more about a petroleum fire than a solvent fire.
First off flammability has two meanings, one is a legal term to based on the temperature at which the liquid will produce enough vapor to burn. This is based on not only the percentage of organic to aqueous, but also the type of organic solvent. The other is the scientific term which technically everything is flammable, it is just temperature dependent. Flammability for transport is determined at a specific temperature. For DOT regulations, flammability is anything that generates enough vapors to ignite, at 80 degrees F. 50/50 meth/water is about 75 degrees, so that's why you see 49/51 as the highest you can ship. Also that's why you can't take 100 proof or higher alcohol on a plane.
The big difference you need to remember with different flammabilities isn't so much when or if it will catch on fire, but how much heat will it generate when it burns.
Take a quart of methanol and a quart of gasoline and light both on fire, the gasoline will burn much hotter than the methanol... same is true for brake fluid and trans fluid and oil. Bust an oiler cooler line and have it hit the exhaust, and it will burn the car down.
One gallon of 50/50 methanol is far less of a concern to me than a gasoline or oil fire. Methanol evaporates so quickly, that a majority of it will evaporate before it can burn.
I'm not only a chemist, but I also do hazmat, and I worry far more about a petroleum fire than a solvent fire.
Last edited by The Alchemist; Aug 30, 2015 at 11:25 AM.
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 572
Likes: 2
From: Gold Country California
Ok, some science, compliance, legality lessons...
First off flammability has two meanings, one is a legal term to based on the temperature at which the liquid will produce enough vapor to burn. This is based on not only the percentage of organic to aqueous, but also the type of organic solvent. The other is the scientific term which technically everything is flammable, it is just temperature dependent. Flammability for transport is determined at a specific temperature. For DOT regulations, flammability is anything that generates enough vapors to ignite, at 80 degrees F. 50/50 meth/water is about 75 degrees, so that's why you see 49/51 as the highest you can ship. Also that's why you can't take 100 proof or higher alcohol on a plane.
The big difference you need to remember with different flammabilities isn't so much when or if it will catch on fire, but how much heat will it generate when it burns.
Take a quart of methanol and a quart of gasoline and light both on fire, the gasoline will burn much hotter than the methanol... same is true for brake fluid and trans fluid and oil. Bust an oiler cooler line and have it hit the exhaust, and it will burn the car down.
One gallon of 50/50 methanol is far less of a concern to me than a gasoline or oil fire. Methanol evaporates so quickly, that a majority of it will evaporate before it can burn.
I'm not only a chemist, but I also do hazmat, and I worry far more about a petroleum fire than a solvent fire.
First off flammability has two meanings, one is a legal term to based on the temperature at which the liquid will produce enough vapor to burn. This is based on not only the percentage of organic to aqueous, but also the type of organic solvent. The other is the scientific term which technically everything is flammable, it is just temperature dependent. Flammability for transport is determined at a specific temperature. For DOT regulations, flammability is anything that generates enough vapors to ignite, at 80 degrees F. 50/50 meth/water is about 75 degrees, so that's why you see 49/51 as the highest you can ship. Also that's why you can't take 100 proof or higher alcohol on a plane.
The big difference you need to remember with different flammabilities isn't so much when or if it will catch on fire, but how much heat will it generate when it burns.
Take a quart of methanol and a quart of gasoline and light both on fire, the gasoline will burn much hotter than the methanol... same is true for brake fluid and trans fluid and oil. Bust an oiler cooler line and have it hit the exhaust, and it will burn the car down.
One gallon of 50/50 methanol is far less of a concern to me than a gasoline or oil fire. Methanol evaporates so quickly, that a majority of it will evaporate before it can burn.
I'm not only a chemist, but I also do hazmat, and I worry far more about a petroleum fire than a solvent fire.
Seriously though. My original intent was for myself, not pushing this on anyone else, the safety factory of a meth / alcohol mix tank and my concerns about the flammability. **** happens. I did bulletproof my gas system the best I could and spared no expense. I dont yet know what mixture I will run. A lot of guys run pure methanol. None of us would ever store 1 or 2 gallons of gasoline in a translucent plastic front mounted tank. That would be stupid. I have a Vette' so there is no trunk but myself I am sold on a dedicated fuel cell for the mix. Peace of mind and not an afterthought. I looked and I haven't found where there ever as been an actual fire but knowing now that even a less than 50% mix will burn why risk failure? What would just a small leak do on a hot header? I dont want to have to worry about any of it. Not just one over the other. I thank you all for your knowledge and participation. Really. Learned something today.
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