Is water-methanol really flamable?
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Is water-methanol really flamable? I meant "very" flamable. I spent a lot re-doing all my fuel lines to Teflon core braided steel and all steel fittings. That Paul Walker wreck sort of rattled me. As it is Im going to shop for a small fuel cell with a bladder to store the meth injection fuel in the car. I think it would just suck to have a fire from a ruptured alcohol / methanol injection tank. Is the water-methanol or water-alcohol mix flammable?
You know windshield washer fluid is essentially the same exact thing. That's not in a "fuel cell".
And PW died from smashing into a light pole/tree sideways at 120 on a public road.
And PW died from smashing into a light pole/tree sideways at 120 on a public road.
Let me start with " I'm not an expert but I play one on TV"
I believe a 70/30 mix is where you have a reasonably safe mixture.
As far as flammability, you can still put a match to 100 proof moonshine ( which is 50/50) and light it. So I can't say at what point it's non flammable but there is a difference between flammable and likely to combust under an impact etc.. As you are probably aware gasoline and other flammables tend to ignite the fumes with just a spark. Water meth needs a direct flame.
Again, I only know what I've read and personally took a match to. Someone else with real knowledge needs to chime in. I know there is at least one Chemist on these boards.
I believe a 70/30 mix is where you have a reasonably safe mixture.
As far as flammability, you can still put a match to 100 proof moonshine ( which is 50/50) and light it. So I can't say at what point it's non flammable but there is a difference between flammable and likely to combust under an impact etc.. As you are probably aware gasoline and other flammables tend to ignite the fumes with just a spark. Water meth needs a direct flame.
Again, I only know what I've read and personally took a match to. Someone else with real knowledge needs to chime in. I know there is at least one Chemist on these boards.
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From: Norn Iron
I meant "very" flamable. I spent a lot re-doing all my fuel lines to Teflon core braided steel and all steel fittings. That Paul Walker wreck sort of rattled me. As it is Im going to shop for a small fuel cell with a bladder to store the meth injection fuel in the car. I think it would just suck to have a fire from a ruptured alcohol / methanol injection tank. Is the water-methanol or water-alcohol mix flammable?
Perhaps more so that methanol or gasoline.
So be more concerned with how any liquids might ignite, more so than whether they are flammable on their own.
Where do you perceive that rupture risk coming from ? In many ways, plastic tanks can be more versatile here than metal, as plastic can deform quite a bit and still not rupture. Whereas metal tanks generally deform and puncture.
Just install them somewhere as safe as possible, where there is almost no chance of rupture.
if you're really that paranoid about fire, install a proper fire extinguisher system into the vehicle
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Brake fluid, PAS/ATF fluid are all highly flammable too with a low flash point.
Perhaps more so that methanol or gasoline.
So be more concerned with how any liquids might ignite, more so than whether they are flammable on their own.
Where do you perceive that rupture risk coming from ? In many ways, plastic tanks can be more versatile here than metal, as plastic can deform quite a bit and still not rupture. Whereas metal tanks generally deform and puncture.
Just install them somewhere as safe as possible, where there is almost no chance of rupture.
if you're really that paranoid about fire, install a proper fire extinguisher system into the vehicle
Perhaps more so that methanol or gasoline.
So be more concerned with how any liquids might ignite, more so than whether they are flammable on their own.
Where do you perceive that rupture risk coming from ? In many ways, plastic tanks can be more versatile here than metal, as plastic can deform quite a bit and still not rupture. Whereas metal tanks generally deform and puncture.
Just install them somewhere as safe as possible, where there is almost no chance of rupture.
if you're really that paranoid about fire, install a proper fire extinguisher system into the vehicle
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From: Norn Iron
Problem is what really caused that fire though ? A fuel line coming loose isnt a problem as such. Unless there is also something to ignite the fuel.
And as said, the likes of brake fluid and ATF fluid are also highly flammable. I've seen more cars go up in smoke at race events because of that, than any type of fuel used.
If you toss a match into gasoline, generally it will not ignite. It's the fuel vapour that is the most dangerous and combustible vs the actual liquid itself
I would guess methanol would be the same. I have lit pure methanol before, and fairly sure also high meth/water percentages at some point although would never have measured ratios
But then it's no different to lighting vodka, whiskey etc etc. They all have some alcohol content that can burn...but would you see them as a real fire risk ? Nope
Again, you need to decide where the risks are coming from in the first place to see how valid they really are.
With a small fuel tank for it, risks diminish simply through having less of it.
Not sure an airbag deployment kills the fuel pumps, most cars as long as the engine is rotating generally the pumps will run. But I guess it is possible on some cars. I know some cars that have been crashed with airbags deployed, but the car will still start and run.
And try and mount any fuel cells away from any dangers...ie within the cage or protected area or at least away from any extremities of the car so in the event of a crash it shouldnt get hit.
And as said, the likes of brake fluid and ATF fluid are also highly flammable. I've seen more cars go up in smoke at race events because of that, than any type of fuel used.
If you toss a match into gasoline, generally it will not ignite. It's the fuel vapour that is the most dangerous and combustible vs the actual liquid itself
I would guess methanol would be the same. I have lit pure methanol before, and fairly sure also high meth/water percentages at some point although would never have measured ratios
But then it's no different to lighting vodka, whiskey etc etc. They all have some alcohol content that can burn...but would you see them as a real fire risk ? Nope
Again, you need to decide where the risks are coming from in the first place to see how valid they really are.
With a small fuel tank for it, risks diminish simply through having less of it.
Not sure an airbag deployment kills the fuel pumps, most cars as long as the engine is rotating generally the pumps will run. But I guess it is possible on some cars. I know some cars that have been crashed with airbags deployed, but the car will still start and run.
And try and mount any fuel cells away from any dangers...ie within the cage or protected area or at least away from any extremities of the car so in the event of a crash it shouldnt get hit.
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This made me curious enough to try it out.
I took a small cup of my 50/50 and put the match to it. While it took a few moments .... It did ignite ( almost invisible blue flame). Tom Cruise !!! Use your witchcraft to put it out !
Back to the intention of the Q:
Like Stevie said, remove the potential by mounting the cell in the safest location.
Anything can happen .... But limiting the risk is what it is all about. Use the best & safest cell you can find & mount it where it will be most protected. We can only mitigate the risks ,,,, can't remove them all together.
Especially at 200 mph !
I took a small cup of my 50/50 and put the match to it. While it took a few moments .... It did ignite ( almost invisible blue flame). Tom Cruise !!! Use your witchcraft to put it out !
Back to the intention of the Q:
Like Stevie said, remove the potential by mounting the cell in the safest location.
Anything can happen .... But limiting the risk is what it is all about. Use the best & safest cell you can find & mount it where it will be most protected. We can only mitigate the risks ,,,, can't remove them all together.
Especially at 200 mph !
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If you are REALLY worried why not run it in a dedicated fuel cell (not an metal tank but an pandered tank) and ensure it is solidly mounted to the chassis. Mount it outside the passenger cell and ensure you have a good fire suppression system. This is what the likes of F1, alms, Indy cars (pretty much any race car) etc do. It's not 100% risk free but it's the safest solution.
Oh and a fire suppression system is not a fire extinguisher you need to operate. It needs to have both internal and external trigger points or be automatic. You pref. want it to deploy in both the cabin, engine bay, and the region any fuel cells are located. This should give you enough time to get out the car, or for someone to drag you out!
Oh and a fire suppression system is not a fire extinguisher you need to operate. It needs to have both internal and external trigger points or be automatic. You pref. want it to deploy in both the cabin, engine bay, and the region any fuel cells are located. This should give you enough time to get out the car, or for someone to drag you out!
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This made me curious enough to try it out.
I took a small cup of my 50/50 and put the match to it. While it took a few moments .... It did ignite ( almost invisible blue flame). Tom Cruise !!! Use your witchcraft to put it out !
Back to the intention of the Q:
Like Stevie said, remove the potential by mounting the cell in the safest location.
Anything can happen .... But limiting the risk is what it is all about. Use the best & safest cell you can find & mount it where it will be most protected. We can only mitigate the risks ,,,, can't remove them all together.
Especially at 200 mph !
I took a small cup of my 50/50 and put the match to it. While it took a few moments .... It did ignite ( almost invisible blue flame). Tom Cruise !!! Use your witchcraft to put it out !
Back to the intention of the Q:
Like Stevie said, remove the potential by mounting the cell in the safest location.
Anything can happen .... But limiting the risk is what it is all about. Use the best & safest cell you can find & mount it where it will be most protected. We can only mitigate the risks ,,,, can't remove them all together.
Especially at 200 mph !
Got that right. Then again I would be the one to meltdown from a 5mph scratch.
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If you are REALLY worried why not run it in a dedicated fuel cell (not an metal tank but an pandered tank) and ensure it is solidly mounted to the chassis. Mount it outside the passenger cell and ensure you have a good fire suppression system. This is what the likes of F1, alms, Indy cars (pretty much any race car) etc do. It's not 100% risk free but it's the safest solution.
Oh and a fire suppression system is not a fire extinguisher you need to operate. It needs to have both internal and external trigger points or be automatic. You pref. want it to deploy in both the cabin, engine bay, and the region any fuel cells are located. This should give you enough time to get out the car, or for someone to drag you out!
Oh and a fire suppression system is not a fire extinguisher you need to operate. It needs to have both internal and external trigger points or be automatic. You pref. want it to deploy in both the cabin, engine bay, and the region any fuel cells are located. This should give you enough time to get out the car, or for someone to drag you out!
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You know, all that isn't just because one might be worried about a fire. If your car is fast enough all that is mandated equipment. Right? I kind of hope some guys that read this thread might re-think their Alcohol/Meth tank if its a bit shady or an afterthought. Seriously.
Any -30* F windshield washer fluid contains 40% methanol. Are you suggesting that everyone remove their windshield washer system and replace it all with a bladder filled fuel cell and braided teflon coated lines?
Every single fluid in your car other than water is more flammable than a windshield washer mix. Your engine oil, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, brake fluid, gear oil for your diff, and even pure antifreeze are all more flammable than windshield washer fluid. I suggest you start working on fire suppression systems for all of those too. You can be like the automotive counterpart of doomsday preppers.
Never start off a serious conversation with Paul Walker... It likely won't stay serious.
50/50 by volume shouldn't be flammable. That's the reason meth injection companies can ship it cheap. If there is separation leading to a higher alcohol content on top I can see it lighting... Or 50/50 mixed by weight. I've tried o ignite my 50/50 mix with a torch... nada.
Nothing wrong with a dedicated cell in my book either.
Nothing wrong with a dedicated cell in my book either.
The drones projectile with a housing made of cellulose n and used 2 stage petroleum based propellant was prolly the cause of the fire. Just sayin
Like throwing a bigger piece of glass thru a window to break it.
Like throwing a bigger piece of glass thru a window to break it.
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50/50 by volume shouldn't be flammable. That's the reason meth injection companies can ship it cheap. If there is separation leading to a higher alcohol content on top I can see it lighting... Or 50/50 mixed by weight. I've tried o ignite my 50/50 mix with a torch... nada.
Nothing wrong with a dedicated cell in my book either.
Nothing wrong with a dedicated cell in my book either.
Exactly,
My wife walked into the dark garage and saw the blue flame ....
said," WTF are you doing now". I didn't even try to explain it.
I have to report MY 50/50 did light with a match. I mixed it with equal volumes of Meth & distilled water. It burned. Not to say brake fluid or any other fluid found under the hood wouldn't do the same .... But 50/50 certainly burns.
My wife walked into the dark garage and saw the blue flame ....
said," WTF are you doing now". I didn't even try to explain it.
I have to report MY 50/50 did light with a match. I mixed it with equal volumes of Meth & distilled water. It burned. Not to say brake fluid or any other fluid found under the hood wouldn't do the same .... But 50/50 certainly burns.
I believe you... But like I said, mine did not light. Neither should any of the "store bought" 50/50 mixes. Again this is a liability issue and they aren't suppose to sell/ship a flammable mixture. Maybe it's less than the advertised 50/50 I didn't measure alky content.