Smallest(physical) twins on a 388ci build
Smallest(physical) twins on a 388ci build Greetings all,
I've had several turbo posts over the years for my in progress road/street/pro-touring '64 nova build, and I'm finally getting very close to pulling the trigger.
Motor-
ERL 4.125" bore sleeved block
forged 3.622" crank(388ci)
~8.8 compression
Trans-
T-56 with Z06 gear sets
Other-
A2W inner cooler
AFCO ZL1 front mount heat exchanger. Retanked to 1" AN fittings for flow.
intake will use whipple lower with custom hat and heat exchanger
pump/tank in trunk of car.
I'm looking for around 1000 crank hp. No meth or corn, pump gas. I am assuming I'll need low to mid 6Xmm turbos.
I have major space constraints I didn't think about early on, and it is pushing me in the direction of possibly using twin T3 frame turbos.
Currently, I found the 6665 turbonetics 'Ashley' turbo. This appears to be the smallest frame turbo that will support ~1000hp in twins, has t3 frame, and a larger A/R to support the displacement.
I have found another car said to have 6665s but I am unsure of the frame size, but it was said to make around 1000chp.
I also was looking at the turbonetics 60 series as they seem to more physically compact. But, I can't find any builds with them on a twin v8.
Is the larger A/R T3 any smaller than a smaller/medium A/R T4?
Does anyone have any insight or experience with either this turbo or other similar ones on a similar sized engine? Backpressure is a concern with the T3s, not sure if its valid?
Thoughts?
I've had several turbo posts over the years for my in progress road/street/pro-touring '64 nova build, and I'm finally getting very close to pulling the trigger.
Motor-
ERL 4.125" bore sleeved block
forged 3.622" crank(388ci)
~8.8 compression
Trans-
T-56 with Z06 gear sets
Other-
A2W inner cooler
AFCO ZL1 front mount heat exchanger. Retanked to 1" AN fittings for flow.
intake will use whipple lower with custom hat and heat exchanger
pump/tank in trunk of car.
I'm looking for around 1000 crank hp. No meth or corn, pump gas. I am assuming I'll need low to mid 6Xmm turbos.
I have major space constraints I didn't think about early on, and it is pushing me in the direction of possibly using twin T3 frame turbos.
Currently, I found the 6665 turbonetics 'Ashley' turbo. This appears to be the smallest frame turbo that will support ~1000hp in twins, has t3 frame, and a larger A/R to support the displacement.
I have found another car said to have 6665s but I am unsure of the frame size, but it was said to make around 1000chp.
I also was looking at the turbonetics 60 series as they seem to more physically compact. But, I can't find any builds with them on a twin v8.
Is the larger A/R T3 any smaller than a smaller/medium A/R T4?
Does anyone have any insight or experience with either this turbo or other similar ones on a similar sized engine? Backpressure is a concern with the T3s, not sure if its valid?
Thoughts?
Watch your exhaust side. Just because the turbo is rated for a higher output does not mean it can handle the large volume of exhaust flow when you reach it. I have see this more times than I can count with customers of ours building turbo motors and ending up having to swap the turbos again due to back pressure. The 387 is a good size motor, I have run and built tons of these. I can tell you that you will have no issue turning a pair of T4 turbos even with a larger compressor. Are you looking for a small turbo just to increase spool speed?
Greetings all,
I've had several turbo posts over the years for my in progress road/street/pro-touring '64 nova build, and I'm finally getting very close to pulling the trigger.
Motor-
ERL 4.125" bore sleeved block
forged 3.622" crank(388ci)
~8.8 compression
Trans-
T-56 with Z06 gear sets
Other-
A2W inner cooler
AFCO ZL1 front mount heat exchanger. Retanked to 1" AN fittings for flow.
intake will use whipple lower with custom hat and heat exchanger
pump/tank in trunk of car.
I'm looking for around 1000 crank hp. No meth or corn, pump gas. I am assuming I'll need low to mid 6Xmm turbos.
I have major space constraints I didn't think about early on, and it is pushing me in the direction of possibly using twin T3 frame turbos.
Currently, I found the 6665 turbonetics 'Ashley' turbo. This appears to be the smallest frame turbo that will support ~1000hp in twins, has t3 frame, and a larger A/R to support the displacement.
I have found another car said to have 6665s but I am unsure of the frame size, but it was said to make around 1000chp.
I also was looking at the turbonetics 60 series as they seem to more physically compact. But, I can't find any builds with them on a twin v8.
Is the larger A/R T3 any smaller than a smaller/medium A/R T4?
Does anyone have any insight or experience with either this turbo or other similar ones on a similar sized engine? Backpressure is a concern with the T3s, not sure if its valid?
Thoughts?
I've had several turbo posts over the years for my in progress road/street/pro-touring '64 nova build, and I'm finally getting very close to pulling the trigger.
Motor-
ERL 4.125" bore sleeved block
forged 3.622" crank(388ci)
~8.8 compression
Trans-
T-56 with Z06 gear sets
Other-
A2W inner cooler
AFCO ZL1 front mount heat exchanger. Retanked to 1" AN fittings for flow.
intake will use whipple lower with custom hat and heat exchanger
pump/tank in trunk of car.
I'm looking for around 1000 crank hp. No meth or corn, pump gas. I am assuming I'll need low to mid 6Xmm turbos.
I have major space constraints I didn't think about early on, and it is pushing me in the direction of possibly using twin T3 frame turbos.
Currently, I found the 6665 turbonetics 'Ashley' turbo. This appears to be the smallest frame turbo that will support ~1000hp in twins, has t3 frame, and a larger A/R to support the displacement.
I have found another car said to have 6665s but I am unsure of the frame size, but it was said to make around 1000chp.
I also was looking at the turbonetics 60 series as they seem to more physically compact. But, I can't find any builds with them on a twin v8.
Is the larger A/R T3 any smaller than a smaller/medium A/R T4?
Does anyone have any insight or experience with either this turbo or other similar ones on a similar sized engine? Backpressure is a concern with the T3s, not sure if its valid?
Thoughts?
Watch your exhaust side. Just because the turbo is rated for a higher output does not mean it can handle the large volume of exhaust flow when you reach it. I have see this more times than I can count with customers of ours building turbo motors and ending up having to swap the turbos again due to back pressure. The 387 is a good size motor, I have run and built tons of these. I can tell you that you will have no issue turning a pair of T4 turbos even with a larger compressor. Are you looking for a small turbo just to increase spool speed?
I'm looking at small in a physical sense. For packaging.
WORSE case is I run them low mount next to the bellhousing and cut the floor even more than I already have. I realllly don't want to do this but I suppose it's an option.
Here's a general pic of the bay. Fitting the inner fenders in now. I don't mind notching the inners for clearance here and there, but I rather not whack them to pieces. Also, because I tucked the front bumper and am running the 3" A2W heat exchanger, the radiator is pushed back far. I'll get a pic with the inner fenders and rad. tonight.
Also, I'm running 275 front tires, which also take up plenty of space- pics below.
bay-
tire fitment ride height and full bump-
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it appears the PTE 5858/5962/6262 and the turbonetics 60 series are basically the same size with the turbonetics T-series being a bit larger on the compressor side.
Am I basically an idiot here? Is the turbine size based on the a/r, then they slap whatever flange you want on the end? so a T3 or T4 is the same physical size(call it diameter), with either T3 or T4 flange to couple to?
It appears the compressor side varies widely depending what you have.
Am I catching on to turbo lingo or am I more lost than before?
it appears the PTE 5858/5962/6262 and the turbonetics 60 series are basically the same size with the turbonetics T-series being a bit larger on the compressor side.
Am I basically an idiot here? Is the turbine size based on the a/r, then they slap whatever flange you want on the end? so a T3 or T4 is the same physical size(call it diameter), with either T3 or T4 flange to couple to?
It appears the compressor side varies widely depending what you have.
Am I catching on to turbo lingo or am I more lost than before?
AGP is using this turbo for their 1000whp kits-
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...-56-61-177268/
basically a 5661. I suppose that would cross to a 58/62 over at PTE.
I'm going to email AGP and see what they say. I have a feeling my best bet may be to shoot for a layout similar to their camaro kit.
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server31...0.1280.jpg?c=2
this would put the turbos down low on either side of the transmission. I was thinking about it last night while working out in the garage and this setup has a few benefits.
Pros
move the weight back, which is good for me.
make downpipes and exhaust plumbing easier.
remove some under hood heat.
Cons
oil drains are lower than oil line in motor
intake is low- driving in rain scares me
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...-56-61-177268/
basically a 5661. I suppose that would cross to a 58/62 over at PTE.
I'm going to email AGP and see what they say. I have a feeling my best bet may be to shoot for a layout similar to their camaro kit.
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server31...0.1280.jpg?c=2
this would put the turbos down low on either side of the transmission. I was thinking about it last night while working out in the garage and this setup has a few benefits.
Pros
move the weight back, which is good for me.
make downpipes and exhaust plumbing easier.
remove some under hood heat.
Cons
oil drains are lower than oil line in motor
intake is low- driving in rain scares me
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
With the pipe on their intake, it's actually fairly high, or they offer a kit to completely re-locate the intake.
I have my turbos low, probably lower than theirs in real terms ( those Gen5's must have huge ground clearance ).
I had zero room for filters so literally have a mushroom style filter directly onto the turbo. I've driven in some very shitty weather and so far not had any problems. Actually amazed I didnt on one evening.
But really if it's raining that bad either park up or just pay attention and dont drive into any lakes. It isnt that difficult.
For me, going low just made sense. I thought there would never be room...but managed to find it. Plug changes are a doddle, there's no clutter up top, the turbos etc are actually a piece of **** to remove ( I just remove manifold/turbo as a unit ). And as you say, makes the downpipes a doddle.
Biggest complication for me was sorting the oil supply ( and to a lesser degree scavenge ).
The I needed to go to a remote filter as the left turbo needed to sit right in that space which meant a lot of faffing about until I got the large oil lines all good for this. But even getting the w/g's down by the gearbox proved quite easy...and again very easy to remove/install.
Using a pair of old Subaru tubular manifolds and their slip joints actually made this very simple.
I have my turbos low, probably lower than theirs in real terms ( those Gen5's must have huge ground clearance ).
I had zero room for filters so literally have a mushroom style filter directly onto the turbo. I've driven in some very shitty weather and so far not had any problems. Actually amazed I didnt on one evening.
But really if it's raining that bad either park up or just pay attention and dont drive into any lakes. It isnt that difficult.
For me, going low just made sense. I thought there would never be room...but managed to find it. Plug changes are a doddle, there's no clutter up top, the turbos etc are actually a piece of **** to remove ( I just remove manifold/turbo as a unit ). And as you say, makes the downpipes a doddle.
Biggest complication for me was sorting the oil supply ( and to a lesser degree scavenge ).
The I needed to go to a remote filter as the left turbo needed to sit right in that space which meant a lot of faffing about until I got the large oil lines all good for this. But even getting the w/g's down by the gearbox proved quite easy...and again very easy to remove/install.
Using a pair of old Subaru tubular manifolds and their slip joints actually made this very simple.
you have any pics? what turbos you running?
I made a cardboard cylinder to approx. the size of the turbos, it's a little large dia. than the turbonetics series 60. They may work top mount, but I'm not really sure. I need to get the hood back on the car to check height.
Going low will cost me some floor as the trans tunnel will have to get huge. Also, the oil return from the turbos will be a PITA. still trying to weight the options.
I want to talk with AGP and see what turbos they recommend. Probably worth it at this point to get one and see how it wants to fit.
I made a cardboard cylinder to approx. the size of the turbos, it's a little large dia. than the turbonetics series 60. They may work top mount, but I'm not really sure. I need to get the hood back on the car to check height.
Going low will cost me some floor as the trans tunnel will have to get huge. Also, the oil return from the turbos will be a PITA. still trying to weight the options.
I want to talk with AGP and see what turbos they recommend. Probably worth it at this point to get one and see how it wants to fit.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 16
From: Avon, Ohio
You realize "T series" has nothing to do with the cover? What you are looking at is an "E" cover, vs the copy of an "S" cover. You can stuff whatever wheel you can fit in there. In garret's nomenclature what PTE, T-netics, Comp and most others copy, it goes pee sized- to B cover, E, S, H....ect. Borg and KKK use their own stuff
To the OP-you can basically stuff anything under 70mm compressor into an E cover, or under 70mm compressor into a t3 housing. Both will limit airflow vs larger housings.
To the OP-you can basically stuff anything under 70mm compressor into an E cover, or under 70mm compressor into a t3 housing. Both will limit airflow vs larger housings.
I was also unsure about the space needed for a twin setup. I decided it was easier to purchase some cheap ebay or On3 turbo for mock up, only $300 each. I went with twin On3 and they should still be capable 6-700HP.
my cardboard is same overall length and slightly larger on OD of compressor, according to turbonetics website/drawings.
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/perfor...arger-drawings
I hate looking at the ON3 turbos because they are so cheap lol. My wallets like them but I hate to build around them and just have problems.
I wonder if this gt35 clone is legit? They are claiming 1000hp through their new exhaust housing.
http://www.on3performance.com/shop/o...-turbocharger/
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/perfor...arger-drawings
I hate looking at the ON3 turbos because they are so cheap lol. My wallets like them but I hate to build around them and just have problems.
I wonder if this gt35 clone is legit? They are claiming 1000hp through their new exhaust housing.
http://www.on3performance.com/shop/o...-turbocharger/