1200hp engine build advice needed - LS3 or Iron block?
09-25-2016, 07:16 PM
#1
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1200hp engine build advice needed - LS3 or Iron block? I've decided to build a motor this winter so I'd like to start gathering parts. My goal is to make 1000-1200 whp and capable of mid 8's in the 160s. I'm on a pretty tight budget, so high-dollar parts are out of the question.
My dilemma is whether I should go with an aluminum or iron block. I currently have a stock bottom end LS2 and the car works really really well on the street and at No Prep events. I feel like this is in part due to the 52/48 weight distribution the aluminum block helps yield.
New LS3 GM block, pinned main caps OR 05+ 6.0L iron block
K1 crank - 3.622 or 4.00 stroke?
K1 h-beam rods
Wiseco off-the-shelf pistons
Compression 10.3-10.8
Rings ???
Oil pump ???
Heads - plan to use my current LSA heads (358 cfm)
Regular 11mm ARP head studs
LS3 intake (I'd like to retain my stock hood. Not sure how far this intake will get me)
Cam - my current is a 233/255 on 115. Any suggestions?
Blower - F1A-94 at 24-26 psi
Headers - current Dynatech 1-7/8. Think I need to step up to 2" or 2-1/8"?
Fuel is e85, holley dominator ecu.
Any advice or suggestions appreciated!
My dilemma is whether I should go with an aluminum or iron block. I currently have a stock bottom end LS2 and the car works really really well on the street and at No Prep events. I feel like this is in part due to the 52/48 weight distribution the aluminum block helps yield.
New LS3 GM block, pinned main caps OR 05+ 6.0L iron block
K1 crank - 3.622 or 4.00 stroke?
K1 h-beam rods
Wiseco off-the-shelf pistons
Compression 10.3-10.8
Rings ???
Oil pump ???
Heads - plan to use my current LSA heads (358 cfm)
Regular 11mm ARP head studs
LS3 intake (I'd like to retain my stock hood. Not sure how far this intake will get me)
Cam - my current is a 233/255 on 115. Any suggestions?
Blower - F1A-94 at 24-26 psi
Headers - current Dynatech 1-7/8. Think I need to step up to 2" or 2-1/8"?
Fuel is e85, holley dominator ecu.
Any advice or suggestions appreciated!
09-25-2016, 09:29 PM
#2
Staging Lane
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I seriously doubt that you will hit over 1k with that blower & a 402
Ill say 850 to 950rwhp as max
you will need a bigger blower like the F1x or the F2 and spin it hard to achieve that goal
good luck!
Ill say 850 to 950rwhp as max
you will need a bigger blower like the F1x or the F2 and spin it hard to achieve that goal
good luck!
09-26-2016, 07:31 AM
#3
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You are probably thinking of the regular F1A. The F1A-94 is more than capable of that power. Many guys running mid 7s and 180+mph with this blower.
https://www.procharger.com/blog/summ...charged-racers
https://www.procharger.com/blog/summ...charged-racers
09-26-2016, 07:41 AM
#4
1000whp you can get away with some reliability with the GM iron block. Making 1200whp reliably on any factory GM block isn't going to happen. Especially with a knarly SC hanging off the front of it. At that level you need to look at the LSX/ERL/dart etc.
Don't take this the wrong way but you're going about this all wrong "I'm on a budget so expensive parts aren't in the picture" type comments are going to cause you so much more BS in the end. Take my advice or don't but ive been down the cheap route and I ended up spending 2X what I should have in the end. It may be cliche but it's the truth. For those HP goals and ET requirements the least you can do for yourself is start off with a good block. Cheap out in the Pistons and rods if you must. Hell even a K1 is a decent crank but a good LSX block is worth its salt on the track. You'll be glad you did later..
Don't take this the wrong way but you're going about this all wrong "I'm on a budget so expensive parts aren't in the picture" type comments are going to cause you so much more BS in the end. Take my advice or don't but ive been down the cheap route and I ended up spending 2X what I should have in the end. It may be cliche but it's the truth. For those HP goals and ET requirements the least you can do for yourself is start off with a good block. Cheap out in the Pistons and rods if you must. Hell even a K1 is a decent crank but a good LSX block is worth its salt on the track. You'll be glad you did later..
Last edited by oscs; 09-26-2016 at 08:03 AM.
09-26-2016, 09:28 AM
#6
Originally Posted by silent_assassin
I've made over 1k on stock aluminum block but wouldn't advise it. Iron block with 1/2" studs or just go LSX the 1st time.
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09-26-2016, 11:22 AM
#8
LQ4/LQ9 iron block.
ARP head studs.
ARP main studs.
ARP rod bolts.
Stock crank can handle 1000 rwhp but I would recommend going to a forged one.
Those will help you be reliable up to 1000 rwhp.
The LSA heads are a good choice because they have a ticker deck and harder alloy which makes them ideal for high boost applications where other heads are more prone to twist or lift.
If you plan on going above 1000 rwhp, scrap what I said above. Go with an LSX block and 6 bolt heads.
ARP head studs.
ARP main studs.
ARP rod bolts.
Stock crank can handle 1000 rwhp but I would recommend going to a forged one.
Those will help you be reliable up to 1000 rwhp.
The LSA heads are a good choice because they have a ticker deck and harder alloy which makes them ideal for high boost applications where other heads are more prone to twist or lift.
If you plan on going above 1000 rwhp, scrap what I said above. Go with an LSX block and 6 bolt heads.
09-26-2016, 11:37 AM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
If you're wanting to keep weight off the nose... stay away from Iron blocks.
Something sleeved (aluminum) with 6 bolt conversion would be what I'd suggest.
We use an ERL superdeck that's a production 5.3 casting. Have been 4.56 in Street outlaw (NMCA) trim, and 7.17/193 at WCF (old setup in X275 trim)
Something sleeved (aluminum) with 6 bolt conversion would be what I'd suggest.
We use an ERL superdeck that's a production 5.3 casting. Have been 4.56 in Street outlaw (NMCA) trim, and 7.17/193 at WCF (old setup in X275 trim)
09-26-2016, 01:13 PM
#11
Get the best in the beginning. I spoke with Steve at RED about building me a Darton sleeved iron block....yes, a sleeved iron block. Its the ultimate. He's done it many times.
Stronger than ERL or LSX blocks.......and cheaper to do in the end. Sleeve an LQ9 with 1/2" head studs. Or spend some more and sleeve an LSX iron block and have the 6 bolts per cyl also.
.
Stronger than ERL or LSX blocks.......and cheaper to do in the end. Sleeve an LQ9 with 1/2" head studs. Or spend some more and sleeve an LSX iron block and have the 6 bolts per cyl also.
.
09-26-2016, 02:23 PM
#12
Originally Posted by AnotherWs6
Isn't the mod for the forced induction section running a PCer close to those power levels? The Alchemist. I believe he's running a LS3 and an F1A. I'd find his build thread or hit him up.
09-26-2016, 02:25 PM
#13
Originally Posted by LS6427
Get the best in the beginning. I spoke with Steve at RED about building me a Darton sleeved iron block....yes, a sleeved iron block. Its the ultimate. He's done it many times.
Stronger than ERL or LSX blocks.......and cheaper to do in the end. Sleeve an LQ9 with 1/2" head studs. Or spend some more and sleeve an LSX iron block and have the 6 bolts per cyl also.
.
Stronger than ERL or LSX blocks.......and cheaper to do in the end. Sleeve an LQ9 with 1/2" head studs. Or spend some more and sleeve an LSX iron block and have the 6 bolts per cyl also.
.
09-26-2016, 03:03 PM
#14
Use the old Andreas head gasket that is also the new Texas speed head gasket, 500 bucks for a pair and either the aged Sep studs or machine for 1/2 studs and a 4 bolt iron block with after market heads will support between 1300 and 1600 and NOT lift heads....ls1tech is behind a little.
09-26-2016, 03:13 PM
#15
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I've decided to build a motor this winter so I'd like to start gathering parts. My goal is to make 1000-1200 whp and capable of mid 8's in the 160s. I'm on a pretty tight budget, so high-dollar parts are out of the question.
My dilemma is whether I should go with an aluminum or iron block. I currently have a stock bottom end LS2 and the car works really really well on the street and at No Prep events. I feel like this is in part due to the 52/48 weight distribution the aluminum block helps yield.
New LS3 GM block, pinned main caps OR 05+ 6.0L iron block
K1 crank - 3.622 or 4.00 stroke?
K1 h-beam rods
Wiseco off-the-shelf pistons
Compression 10.3-10.8
Rings ???
Oil pump ???
Heads - plan to use my current LSA heads (358 cfm)
Regular 11mm ARP head studs
LS3 intake (I'd like to retain my stock hood. Not sure how far this intake will get me)
Cam - my current is a 233/255 on 115. Any suggestions?
Blower - F1A-94 at 24-26 psi
Headers - current Dynatech 1-7/8. Think I need to step up to 2" or 2-1/8"?
Fuel is e85, holley dominator ecu.
Any advice or suggestions appreciated!
My dilemma is whether I should go with an aluminum or iron block. I currently have a stock bottom end LS2 and the car works really really well on the street and at No Prep events. I feel like this is in part due to the 52/48 weight distribution the aluminum block helps yield.
New LS3 GM block, pinned main caps OR 05+ 6.0L iron block
K1 crank - 3.622 or 4.00 stroke?
K1 h-beam rods
Wiseco off-the-shelf pistons
Compression 10.3-10.8
Rings ???
Oil pump ???
Heads - plan to use my current LSA heads (358 cfm)
Regular 11mm ARP head studs
LS3 intake (I'd like to retain my stock hood. Not sure how far this intake will get me)
Cam - my current is a 233/255 on 115. Any suggestions?
Blower - F1A-94 at 24-26 psi
Headers - current Dynatech 1-7/8. Think I need to step up to 2" or 2-1/8"?
Fuel is e85, holley dominator ecu.
Any advice or suggestions appreciated!
Consider these features:
Skirted and non-skirted design option available.
Priority main oiling system.
Available in deck heights from 9.240 up to 9.950.
STD or raised .388 cam location.
Cylinder barrels extended .375 at the bottom.
Extra thick decks ensure reliable head gasket seal.
Blind head bolt holes dont go through to water jacket.
Scalloped water jackets increase flow around cylinders for better cooling.
Clearance for 4.100 stroke w/ steel rods.
Splayed outer bolts on middle main bearing caps.
LS and Gen I style motor mounts.
Provisions for OE stock roller lifters and cam.
Uses stock timing covers and stock rear cover.
All OE bolt holes for starter, water pump, etc.
Driver or passenger side starter mounts.
Parts kit sold separately (PN: 32000017).
Priority main oiling system.
Available in deck heights from 9.240 up to 9.950.
STD or raised .388 cam location.
Cylinder barrels extended .375 at the bottom.
Extra thick decks ensure reliable head gasket seal.
Blind head bolt holes dont go through to water jacket.
Scalloped water jackets increase flow around cylinders for better cooling.
Clearance for 4.100 stroke w/ steel rods.
Splayed outer bolts on middle main bearing caps.
LS and Gen I style motor mounts.
Provisions for OE stock roller lifters and cam.
Uses stock timing covers and stock rear cover.
All OE bolt holes for starter, water pump, etc.
Driver or passenger side starter mounts.
Parts kit sold separately (PN: 32000017).
http://dartheads.com/dart-product/ls...um-standard-2/
http://dartheads.com/dart-product/ls...um-full-skirt/
09-26-2016, 03:58 PM
#16
Originally Posted by asubennett
Use the old Andreas head gasket that is also the new Texas speed head gasket, 500 bucks for a pair and either the aged Sep studs or machine for 1/2 studs and a 4 bolt iron block with after market heads will support between 1300 and 1600 and NOT lift heads....ls1tech is behind a little.
09-26-2016, 04:08 PM
#17
Not everyone is on the internet 
....And, to me, at this levels your getting into magnum cranks, grp rods, etc... Where those parts will take 2300who of abuse at which point you need 6 bolt heads and the lsx or dart next block for better crank support.
Its kind of a weird niche of people who use it or need it...But Someone with a slayer crank, tfs heads, and a rod better than a comp star in a 4 bolt block could use these gaskets and max out their combo further than it is today with a little peace of mind...they are that good.
....And, to me, at this levels your getting into magnum cranks, grp rods, etc... Where those parts will take 2300who of abuse at which point you need 6 bolt heads and the lsx or dart next block for better crank support.Its kind of a weird niche of people who use it or need it...But Someone with a slayer crank, tfs heads, and a rod better than a comp star in a 4 bolt block could use these gaskets and max out their combo further than it is today with a little peace of mind...they are that good.
09-26-2016, 04:15 PM
#18
Originally Posted by asubennett
Not everyone is on the internet ....And, to me, at this levels your getting into magnum cranks, grp rods, etc... Where those parts will take 2300who of abuse at which point you need 6 bolt heads and the lsx or dart next block for better crank support.
Its kind of a weird niche of people who use it or need it...But Someone with a slayer crank, tfs heads, and a rod better than a comp star in a 4 bolt block could use these gaskets and max out their combo further than it is today with a little peace of mind...they are that good.
....And, to me, at this levels your getting into magnum cranks, grp rods, etc... Where those parts will take 2300who of abuse at which point you need 6 bolt heads and the lsx or dart next block for better crank support.Its kind of a weird niche of people who use it or need it...But Someone with a slayer crank, tfs heads, and a rod better than a comp star in a 4 bolt block could use these gaskets and max out their combo further than it is today with a little peace of mind...they are that good.
09-26-2016, 05:23 PM
#19
Use the old Andreas head gasket that is also the new Texas speed head gasket, 500 bucks for a pair and either the aged Sep studs or machine for 1/2 studs and a 4 bolt iron block with after market heads will support between 1300 and 1600 and NOT lift heads....ls1tech is behind a little.
Air-Flo Tech has been building LQ9 iron block boosted set ups over 1,000 RWHP for years and has never lifted heads. 20psi+
7 second Grand National....1,300 RWHP. I think its a LQ9 430ci with a big single turbo. Ran for years.
.
09-26-2016, 05:25 PM
#20
.