Here is a topic I've heard little about, I really wish we had a sticky on it to educate me, as well I'm sure there would be value for some others.

There are many ways to control the waste gate, and boost. Some very inexpensive, like running on the wastegate spring only, and some very complex like using compressed CO2, an array of solenoids, and a complex electronic stand alone controller. There are also several tiers in between here such as using a bleed type, or ball and spring, manual controllers, as well as moderately priced electronic controllers like the Turbostart eBoost.

Like most people, I've asked other people that I know, what they use and why. I've got an array of different answers. Two people that I know, and I know to be pretty sharp cookies, are on the opposite ends of the spectrum here. They both have very fast cars, one a 7 second car and the other an 8. One of them uses about a $2-3000 set up to control his wastegate the other uses a $20 eBay ball and spring. They both think the way they are doing it is right. The guy with the expensive setup believes it gives him more control, the guy with the ball and spring believes that the money spent on the costly system is better put to use other places in the car. One piece of advice that they had in common was not to skimp on the gate itself, don't go cheap here. They said they go with China turbo before they would go China waste gate. Taking this advice I went with the Precision PW46 for my setup. It seemes like a quality piece. However I'm still in a lurch as exactly what to do as far as actual control. I have a great set of springs which will set the gate anywhere from 1.5 lbs to 25.5 lbs in 1.5 lb increments. Is this simple set up going to be enough? Should I be looking at an electronic controller? These are the types of things I would like to know about.

Here are a list of the control methods that I'm aware of, what are the pros and cons of each?

1) Run on wastegate spring
2) Bleed type manual controller
3) Ball and spring type manual controller
4) Turbosmart eBoost type electronic controller
5) ECU managed boost, like Holley Dominator and OEM cars
6) Complex systems like CO2 operated wastegates.

I'm sure there are more, please feel free to add. Does one of our experts here care to enlighten us?

 

Since you have an array of WG springs to choose from, start there. If you need more control try the $20 ebay ball and spring controller. This is not a situation where starting cheap means buying things twice, so even if you end up at the most complex and expensive option, you probably won't have spent more than $100 more than if you went all-out to begin with. In the meantime, you will not have to wonder if you could have taken a simpler or cheaper route to achieve your goals. In the end, you will be certain that you have the right setup for you.

 

Subd! I too am trying now to get educated on this particular topic. So much to learn still going turbo...but im thankful, there are really smart people on here that like to help out

 

i have the bleed type. it works ok. spool time isnt great without some sort of aid like a transbrake.

i will use an electronic controller like the eboost units or switch to MS3 for everything.

to me, the main benefits of an electronically controlled solenoid are:

faster spool times
rpm compensation
overboost protection

 

Im running Ms3 and enjoy its boost control with multiple strategys. They have even added co2 control for us to try. It's been on my mind for a winter upgrade option

However, I'm having no issues with a simple 3 port valve and turbo pressure controlling boost on an 8psi spring with control upto 20 psi so far with moderate dutycycle

I've ran standard boost target method, boost by time, boost by mph and have settled on boost by gear

 

Even within that, there are dozens more options.

So a better approach will be....what do YOU want a boost controller to do for YOU ?

The pros/cons are simple....sort of.

At the lower end...cost. They're cheaper, almost zero cost, a huge Pro for many.

At the upper end, they can give a wide range of control options, of course that depends what you actually want or need. And of course they can be expensive.

But until you know exactly what you need any controller to do for you.....the rest hardly matters.

 

Boost control is very much application specific. No one can say one option is better than the other without more details. Stevie is correct, more details need to be given on your plans/goals before a proper suggestion can be made.

 

I bought one of those turbosmart boost tees and after putting in it gives me 14-16# on a 10# gate spring on just the first click of adjustment, glad I tried one click before any more as I only have a 2bar map sensor hooked up to msd6010. So in my opinion the cheap manuals aren't the best way of raising boost in small increments, but it could be my particular setup.

 

it is very much the individual setup.

Even tubing diameters to/from the gate/control bleed device etc can make a difference nevermind the huge variables of the actual turbo install itself.

On some a dirt cheap bleed valve can give excellent control over a wide range of boost levels, on others it might be terrible. The only way to find out on each setup is to try.

but expensive electronic controllers always give you flexibility and ease of adjustment from inside the car, although you could argue how easy that might be with some too...but it's usually easier than having to stop the car and dive under the hood to make repeated manual adjustments.

But again, it comes back to the same thing....what do you need from boost control ?

Some might simply need a static single boost level which could be supplied using only the gate, others might need multiple levels of boost over a wide range, with varying stages depending on application.

 

I guess what I want is a maximum of about 16 psi, and I'd like the curve as flat as possible? I'd like to be able to foot brake to about 10 psi for launch, but I know that's a lot more than the waste gate.

 

If you want a base of 10psi...just use a 10psi spring.

After that you could use a very basic controller to achieve the 16psi. It could be done very very cheaply.

 

OK, sure I make an Engine Management System, the ECU-882C.
Sure we have a GPO for running the boost solenoid.
We have a 3-D boost MAP = Target Boost, RPM, and MAT (IAT).
We have a common PID strategy of the command loop electrical signal control.
We have a "loop rate" control object and can choose "invert" of signal.
We use a 46 AMP driver MOSFET with 56 Volt Clamp Diode. (solenoid recovery increase).

I like to use a "dual ported" waste gate.
The top gets the control pressure, bottom is MAP.
We can also a run VNT turbo very well.

NOW, the MOST IMPORTANT item : We read Exhaust Pressure AND can add that measurement to the control loop.

The MAP effects cylinder pressure as does E-MAP.
When the MAP is greater than E-MAP the engine will run great.
When E-MAP is greater than MAP, performance will be lowered.
When E-MAP is 2X of MAP, there will be ENGINE DESTRUCTION.

Would this be a good " add" ?

Lance

 

whoa thats awesome