When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Down sizing intercooler while increasing power to help engine cooling
87 Trans am
5.3LS
torqstorm Centri supercharger 12psi
Howe 28x19 aluminum 2 core rad
Mr gasket 160 Tstat
31x12x3.25 Ebay FMIC
750ml 50/50 Water Meth injection
93 pump gas
18* total WOT timing.
So my 31x12x3.25 ebay FMIC is working fine. I had some cooling issues which was caused by the install of the intercooler. At lower speeds and higher RPM like slow city driving I can get a pretty warm motor. Like 190-210*F but with a 160Tstat and a procomp HV pump water with wetter. Normal cruising temps can be like 165-180* but it creeps up. IATs are in the 100-130*F range in 90+*F ambient temps.
Not sure if it was a pump thing so I purchased a flowkooler HV pump to replace the questionable procomp HV pump and Ive had good luck with them in the past. But The temp increases came after installing the intercooler which temps were always stead at 170/180*. So its def a airflow issue. I was running a Mark VIII dual speed with controller. Now I'm running dual Derale with shroud.
I'm thinking of lowering the size of the intercooler to help with the airflow to the rad core. Thinking of stepping down to a 26.5x7.25x4" which is considerable being 5" shorter in each direction. This smaller one supposedly pushes 415cfm at 56" water.
My engine combo was logging about 60% duty cycle on the 72lb injectors so I think that puts me at 525ish hp on the stock 5.3 with 12psi. Now I'm adding rebuild ported stock 862 castings and a cam motion custom cam 214/228 .561 115.5+4.5, morel 5315 lifers, moly pushrods and straub retrofitted rockers. Hoping to pump power by 80-100hp so possibly 600hp max! If the new smaller IC is capable for up to 500hp (maybe idk) do you think it would still work fine in this application since I'm still using the water/meth injection?
I know it's not that high. But that's when the OEM is running a 195 Tstat and isn't running 12psi through it lol. Seems like a lot for it to swing given an aftermarket radiator, HV pump, 160tstat and water. Fan temps came on at 170 and then 180. I feel like it would keep climbing if I kept beating on it.
Either way im not sure if lowering the size of the IC is best but trying to figure out options.
I cant fit a better rad, my fans should be capable. Can't go lower than 160 tstat. Im swapping water pumps in hoping the increased flow helps a lot. Only thing I can really do is try to open up under the bumper to help get more air through. I'm not going to modify my pristine front bumper by cutting holes in it etc. since it's a bottom feeder I don't really have any other real options.
is it possible to increase the distance between the rad and the intercooler? I see a lot of builds where they are stacked very close, which inhibits heat transfer out of both.
An IC'er can be a problem as it blocks air flow to the radiator-I have had to lower the IC'er in order to give the rad. more air-I try and mount them as low as possible-I have a feeling you might have a resistance problem downsizing the IC'er-being thicker sometimes is bad, you cant get enough air in to cool it all-a lot of the alumn. rads. only use two cores so air can flow thru freely.
Cure? lower the IC'er, Get some killer fans like Spawls that can really pull air,
Hi flow thermostat (A friend of mine used one designed for a Ford by some Co. that he says allowed his Camaro to run cooler)
Once a therm. is open, be it 180 or 160, its done-a lower one is only good if the cooling system can maintain that temp.
Were your IAT's in boost, I ran mine a week ago, I was getting 130's on a 40 deg. day.
I run 2 fans, staged, with both running I hit 199-200, normal driving they don't run, slow, the first might kick in
is it possible to increase the distance between the rad and the intercooler? I see a lot of builds where they are stacked very close, which inhibits heat transfer out of both.
unfortunately I can not. The IC is not getting heated by the rad, the intercooler is working perfectly and keeping temps within 30ish degrees of ambient. I cant lower the IC any more as I already needed to fab a custom Air dam which scrapes on some stuff already. The IC is mounted in the very front, then i have a ford F450 superduty trans cooler (basically the size of my rad and its the thin core) then the radiator. Each is roughly 3/4" gap between.
Left to right, rad, trans cooler, IC
as you can see the IC is very tight in the stock area. The TA front dumper has NO cutouts so all air for cooling is from the underside... very annoying. The IC takes up so much space that it blocks/distupts almost all the flow to the whole radiator core.
So how does one lower the engine temp? There is nothing else that controls engine temp besides Tstat opening temp, combined with the correct fan temp activation you have full control over the motors temp if everything works as it should.
The 160 Tstat opens up and allows coolant to circulate at that temp, the cooling fans are switched on at 170 and 180*F. Given these things if all is adequate then the motor should stay below 180*F or not get much higher than 180*F.
But Air flow, coolant capacity and everything needs to be enough to keep the engine in that range. Since I'm getting hotter only when beating on the car this tells me one of the things or more than one is not adequate and thus I'm trying to fix it. Removal of the FMIC keeps engine temps below 180* all day.
An IC'er can be a problem as it blocks air flow to the radiator-I have had to lower the IC'er in order to give the rad. more air-I try and mount them as low as possible-I have a feeling you might have a resistance problem downsizing the IC'er-being thicker sometimes is bad, you cant get enough air in to cool it all-a lot of the alumn. rads. only use two cores so air can flow thru freely.
Cure? lower the IC'er, Get some killer fans like Spawls that can really pull air,
Hi flow thermostat (A friend of mine used one designed for a Ford by some Co. that he says allowed his Camaro to run cooler)
Once a therm. is open, be it 180 or 160, its done-a lower one is only good if the cooling system can maintain that temp.
Were your IAT's in boost, I ran mine a week ago, I was getting 130's on a 40 deg. day.
I run 2 fans, staged, with both running I hit 199-200, normal driving they don't run, slow, the first might kick in
Understood. The current IC is 3" i believe, the end tanks are prob 3.25"ish, I/O are 3" OD. The smaller core I was looking at was about .5" thicker in the core area and the end tanks are 4" thick with 3"I/O. I know thicker isn't better persay except in an IC!
My radiator is top of the line, HOWE 2 core, 1.25" cores. Ive used a slightly bigger one to cool my 521 BBF and that thing runs 180*F all day.
I'll look into the TStat. I got a Mr.Gasket 160*F high flow and I drilled a 1/8" hole for air bleeding. I have had really good luck with the robert shaw high end Tstats... might look into them but they are like 3x the price lol.
My fan combo was a Mark VIII 18" dual speed, the best of the best OEM wise. I swapped that out with a DERALE dual 12" fan setup with shroud. This is there high end fan setup and pulls a **** ton of amps. They are rated at 3750/4000 cfm, and they pull more than the Mark VIII fan air flow wise. The look and feel exactly like the SPAL fans I have. I have a 11" SPAL fan sitting around that I could slap on somwhere if really needed. But I dont have the room to relocated any of the coolers. The fans are stagged at 180/190 now and thats when I pulled the car in for mods. Engine temps stayed the same except the fans would now shut off while coasting when engine temps got lower than the 170*F.
This motor does run in the 170*F range but only on light gas/coasting and cruising at higher speeds. On the throttle blasting around town the temps climb fast until I let off and cruise.I'm very **** about any fluid temps btw lol.
Heres a pic of my LOG, Can't recall the ambient temp but it was no way cooler than 80*F outside. IATs were 100*F with Meth/water spraying about 750ml. Engine temps were 176*F at 5,327rpms at 18* timing and 180.6 KPA. I was most likely doing 100+mph on the highway as thats the only time I can get this high up rpm wise.
New cooling fan vs old. The new Derale 12" dual fans with shroud vs the Mark VIII 2 speed. the dual fans cover a smidge more of the rad core but they are no joke. They are comparable to the Spals believe me. Their amp draw is serious.
Last edited by customblackbird; 12-13-2016 at 09:22 AM.
The trans cooler is something like 24"x17" and 1.5" thick. No room for it anywhere in the back. IT does such a good job that I had to put a 160 trans Tstat on it so it would heat up.
I thought about opening the opening to the bumper alittle and making a shroud to replace the stock plastic one. Then mount my 11" Spal Pusher fan on the IC to help. Put that on a switch or control it with the 2nd coolant fan to help bring more air across all 3 cores.
I just ordered a 180* Mr gasket Tstat and a stock stant 186*F style Tstat. Ive heard the 160 and 180 cause too much of a swing in engine temps. But it was less than $30 for both so Im going to play with them. Idealy I want this to run cooler than 190 all the time.
do you need a trans cooler that large?
i have a giant b&m and its only like half that size, it works great.
you could also run a factory windstar or Taurus fan. They move more air than any spal fan made.
do I need it... prob not. But it's working lol. Going smaller I don't think would help with space per say. The trans cooler isn't blocking flow it's the giant IC lol I have a smaller B&m stacked plate I could try but I don't know if I want to have to worry about my trans temps. Right now my trans runs in the perfect temp. But it is an option.
The Mark vIII fan 2 speed is the big brother to the Taurus. It pulls more amps and more CFM too. But all the **** about CFM of the ford fans is bullshit. The CFM is actually around 2500cfm. And some guys had a company flow test the mark VIII and dual spal 11" and the dual spal 11" pulled slightly more CFM but did better as the pressure increased or restriction of pulling air through the radiator. Concord is a different animal as it's a dual fan setup. My radiator couldn't fit the concord or winstar due to core size. I'm limited to 24.5"
Might try moving the air dam/lip aft to the radiator and try to seal the sides. that way it deflects air up to the radiator. I had similar issues on my Talon, and it made a huge difference. Completely eliminated my issues and I had a crap pusher fan setup on that car.
I had already done that. I feel like it helped when moving to cool quicker but it still didn't stop the rapid climb of engine temps. I build covers for the sides and then pushed the air dam closer to the front.
I honestly probably think my only option is increasing the area around the IC to help flow more air.
So I received my new tstats today. And decided to give them some attention in the form of actual temp ratings and their opening size measurements with my calipers.
Original tstat in my the car is:
Mr gasket 6367
rated temp is 160F or 71C
actual opening temp 170F/77C
fully open temp 181F/83C
hole opening 1.21" or 30.73mm
mr gasket 6368
rated temp is 180F or 82C
actual opening temp 176F/80C
fully open temp 197F/92C
hole opening 1.21" or 30.73mm
Stant 14948
rated temp 186F or 85.5C
actual opening temp 192F/89C
fully open temp 210F/99C
hole opening 1.44" or 36.77mm
all temps are with my meter with kthermocouple probe in the water. Each hanging in pot of water. It could be that the kthermocouple could be off slightly but it's all I got.
Interesting to find them all operate in the water as designed. The 160 opened alittle late but had the fastest once opening to being full opened. The 180 started to open early but had the longest range till fully open. The start opened slightly late but opened quicker than the 180 but not as fast as the 160. There are huge differences in build size and spring weight/height between the mr gasket and the stant. The stant seemed much higher quality. It's heavier and the springs look heavier and higher rating. Not to mention the stands opening was considerably larger compared to the mr gaskets. The mr gaskets are rated as high flow but they can't flow as much as the stant and it's rated as a normal one. The hole size on the stant is a 1/4" larger in DIA. Also the opening size is much larger than the mr gaskets. I wish the stant came in a 180*F for the LS1 and it opened at that actual temp.
So so now I'm stuck. Do I run the 180 mr gaskets or the stant? And depending on which temp Tstat with the actual opening temp where do I have the fans come
on?
If I had a setup which was pretty solid, except it kept overheating or creeping in temp. There are other things i would do before taking apart my hard work (plumbing and such). Instead, try wrapping the hot parts of the engine. Add blankets, thick fire blankets to the motor anywhere it gets hot. Keep that temp rise out of the engine bay. Add shields to reflect the temp, coatings to insulate, and being turbo I would project a strong shield between the hot and cold sides of the turbochargers, i.e. insulate the hot side like we just discussed away from the cold sides. Water cooled center sections are a big plus for street cars.
Also, make sure you have a full complement of ignition timing during any normal driving / cruise. You will want an EGT gauge to ensure your cruise exhaust temps are not excessive, add timing and review data-logs to ensure that it is advanced far enough to keep the EGT down within a reasonable range. I generally apply a cruise control (to eliminate transient fueling) and then gradually increment timing both directions, find the number which results with a creeping EGT, then advance timing to find the diminishing returns, the duty cycle will be lower and engine vacuum higher as you move away from creeping EGT.
Cant modify the stant? Pull them apart like the video describes below and swap springs around to try and get it to open earlier maybe? Doubt the thermostat is going to make a big diff anyway. I actually blocked my aft bypass passage and run no thermostat to get max flow. Didnt make alot of difference vs a 160 thermo... but it did help some.
12-12-2016, 02:17 PM
Down sizing intercooler while increasing power to help engine cooling 
