Flex hone or not?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2017
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Flex hone or not? I'm doing a poor mans engine rebuild and cant decide if I should flex hone & re-ring. I bought the engine on eBay so I'm not sure what the compression was. I'm shooting for about 600rwhp on a 4.8L 4l80e w/ 76/65 turbo.
Here is a build list I've put together so far. I'm thinking I should just go ahead and do the ring job but I catch myself continually adding additional cost to this build. If you have any suggestions or criticism on the list, please let me know. I could use the help.
By the way, the block is completely tore down at this point and will either get hot tanked or soaked in purple power and power washed/brushed.
Here is a build list I've put together so far. I'm thinking I should just go ahead and do the ring job but I catch myself continually adding additional cost to this build. If you have any suggestions or criticism on the list, please let me know. I could use the help.
By the way, the block is completely tore down at this point and will either get hot tanked or soaked in purple power and power washed/brushed.
- Engine - 2007 4.8L LR4 135k
- ECU - MS3 Gold Box
- Valve Springs - PAC-1218
- Valve Seals - Fel-Pro SS71039
- Camshaft - Elgin E1840P
- Camshaft Bearings - Dura-Bond CHP-23
- Lifters - LS7 OEM
- Lifter Trays - LS2 OEM
- Head Gasket - LS9 OEM
- Head Studs - Chinese
You've already got it broken down. I would not reuse a set of rings or main/rod bearings that has 135K on them . Especially for a turbo build. Why take the chance after spending all the money you already are?
Rockauto
Ring set Mahle/Clevite (41859CP) $49.99-$53.79
Enginetech (C96008) $33.99
Rod Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal(CB663P8) ($20.79-$25.79)
Enginetech (BB253J) $9.25
Main Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal (MS2199P) $78.89-$81.79
Enginetech (BC409J) $25.89
As you can see, it won't cost you that much more to go ahead and do it the right way. For under $200 you avoid an "oh sh*t" moment.
Rockauto
Ring set Mahle/Clevite (41859CP) $49.99-$53.79
Enginetech (C96008) $33.99
Rod Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal(CB663P8) ($20.79-$25.79)
Enginetech (BB253J) $9.25
Main Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal (MS2199P) $78.89-$81.79
Enginetech (BC409J) $25.89
As you can see, it won't cost you that much more to go ahead and do it the right way. For under $200 you avoid an "oh sh*t" moment.
Originally Posted by psychosid30
You've already got it broken down. I would not reuse a set of rings or main/rod bearings that has 135K on them . Especially for a turbo build. Why take the chance after spending all the money you already are?
Rockauto
Ring set Mahle/Clevite (41859CP) $49.99-$53.79
Enginetech (C96008) $33.99
Rod Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal(CB663P8) ($20.79-$25.79)
Enginetech (BB253J) $9.25
Main Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal (MS2199P) $78.89-$81.79
Enginetech (BC409J) $25.89
As you can see, it won't cost you that much more to go ahead and do it the right way. For under $200 you avoid an "oh sh*t" moment.
Rockauto
Ring set Mahle/Clevite (41859CP) $49.99-$53.79
Enginetech (C96008) $33.99
Rod Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal(CB663P8) ($20.79-$25.79)
Enginetech (BB253J) $9.25
Main Bearing Full Set Mahle/Clevite Tri-Metal (MS2199P) $78.89-$81.79
Enginetech (BC409J) $25.89
As you can see, it won't cost you that much more to go ahead and do it the right way. For under $200 you avoid an "oh sh*t" moment.
Get new Hastings rings off Amazon they are like $36. Gap the rings a little loose (I would shoot for 0.0026 top and 0.0028 bottom) and deglaze the bores with a dingleball hone and go! If your having it hot tanked though, a nice diamond stone hone on the bores is around $100 and worth it in my opinion...ensures the hone angle is correct which affects oil retention on the bores as well as promotes proper piston ring rotation when its running. Typically this angle is 30 to 45 degrees.
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Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2017
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Thanks for the replies guys! I'll go ahead with the rings and hone.
As far as the bearings, I thought it was a bad idea to replace them without machining the crank. I was going to clean the block and do the cam bearings myself. If I need to machine the crank I'll just have the shop do it all and they want $150+ just for the hot tank and cam bearing R&R. If I add the crank machining and diamond hone to the bill I might as well do line hone and decking too..... I guess what I'm saying is, the budget is going to get blown if I take it to a shop.
If its safe to do rod and main bearings without machining I'd be happy to do so.
As far as the bearings, I thought it was a bad idea to replace them without machining the crank. I was going to clean the block and do the cam bearings myself. If I need to machine the crank I'll just have the shop do it all and they want $150+ just for the hot tank and cam bearing R&R. If I add the crank machining and diamond hone to the bill I might as well do line hone and decking too..... I guess what I'm saying is, the budget is going to get blown if I take it to a shop.
If its safe to do rod and main bearings without machining I'd be happy to do so.
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I'd say to hone it and leave the rest if it checks out.
The OEM rings and bearings are much better than some of the aftermarket junk people throw in. People aren't always trading up when they tear into an engine. They usually do more harm than good when they throw in "race" parts without machining and screw with all the factory tolerances. If the bearings look good and the clearances are good there is zero reason to replace them. It means the parts are all mated and happy. Same deal with the rings. If you do decide to replace them, I'd go with GM parts.
The OEM rings and bearings are much better than some of the aftermarket junk people throw in. People aren't always trading up when they tear into an engine. They usually do more harm than good when they throw in "race" parts without machining and screw with all the factory tolerances. If the bearings look good and the clearances are good there is zero reason to replace them. It means the parts are all mated and happy. Same deal with the rings. If you do decide to replace them, I'd go with GM parts.
I disassembled, cleaned carefully and reassembled with all the orig parts.
Just keep everything in order.
On the rings, I re-gapped the top ring to .024
The second ring was .028 already.
Don't turn the 2nd upside down. They aren't marked with a dot like the top ring is.........
On the bores I simply went over them by hand with 1200 grit and brake clean to remove any surface rust.
It ran awesome. After about 100 passes, I took it apart to forge it and all was perfect. I should have left it alone.........
Ron
Just keep everything in order.
On the rings, I re-gapped the top ring to .024
The second ring was .028 already.
Don't turn the 2nd upside down. They aren't marked with a dot like the top ring is.........
On the bores I simply went over them by hand with 1200 grit and brake clean to remove any surface rust.
It ran awesome. After about 100 passes, I took it apart to forge it and all was perfect. I should have left it alone.........
Ron
This right here. And if you don't have the proper tools or knowledge to correctly check clearances you are risking it. I'd rather run an "old" used set of bearings than a set I had no clue what the clearances were.
If your down this far, and doing cam bearings (get someone to do them if you don't know how) I would hone and re ring.
With this much work I prob would have stepped up to a 5.3 min, but this is what you have.
With this much work I prob would have stepped up to a 5.3 min, but this is what you have.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2017
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how often are clearances not right on new bearings in a situation like this? I have most the tools needed the measure so that's not an issue. I'm just concerned I'll have to buy several sets of bearings to get everything right, not something I want to do if the current bearings are acceptable.
its fairly common for bearing brands to vary. I have seen a thou from one company's STD size to anothers' STD size. not to mention any possible journal taper or out of round condition. you might throw an off the self set in and get a good result. You might spin a bearing. It's difficult to know without a much more in-depth look.
so what I'm really getting at is that the idea that you are somehow adding reliability (some call it "peace of mind") by changing the bearings is false.
I have fallen into this trap myself. From there it's an easy walk to "might as well do this...." when you should be working out the hotside or tuning it.
if the oil pressure was good and the bearings weren't hammered to crap, move on.
this is just my personal experience.
so what I'm really getting at is that the idea that you are somehow adding reliability (some call it "peace of mind") by changing the bearings is false.
I have fallen into this trap myself. From there it's an easy walk to "might as well do this...." when you should be working out the hotside or tuning it.
if the oil pressure was good and the bearings weren't hammered to crap, move on.
this is just my personal experience.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2015
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its fairly common for bearing brands to vary. I have seen a thou from one company's STD size to anothers' STD size. not to mention any possible journal taper or out of round condition. you might throw an off the self set in and get a good result. You might spin a bearing. It's difficult to know without a much more in-depth look.
so what I'm really getting at is that the idea that you are somehow adding reliability (some call it "peace of mind") by changing the bearings is false.
I have fallen into this trap myself. From there it's an easy walk to "might as well do this...." when you should be working out the hotside or tuning it.
if the oil pressure was good and the bearings weren't hammered to crap, move on.
this is just my personal experience.
so what I'm really getting at is that the idea that you are somehow adding reliability (some call it "peace of mind") by changing the bearings is false.
I have fallen into this trap myself. From there it's an easy walk to "might as well do this...." when you should be working out the hotside or tuning it.
if the oil pressure was good and the bearings weren't hammered to crap, move on.
this is just my personal experience.
Seems even more common with cam bearings spinning. Whether it be new cam journals are a little larger or new bearings too tight. Bottom line, cam bearing tolerance wasn't right for oil used, etc.
Curious if anyone has bottomed out on cam bearing failure and root cause findings. Pinning them seems to be the usual answer.