I removed my intercooler over the winter. Car is running on e85 but would like to keep air temps under control somewhat. I've installed a 210lb fuel injector preturbo for inlet charge cooling with the e85 from the fuel system, I've since added a methanol kit to spray post turbo. I've have tapped my housing for two nozzles, and the kit came with a 175cc and a 375cc nozzle. I'm placing an order tomorrow for a second nozzle and thinking about getting one 625cc nozzle

But I'm curious as to just how much meth I need to spray hot piped

With 20% dc on the 210 injector I was seeing launch iat's at 130 and 1/8th mile trap temps at 155 so far

Think the one 625 with the 375 would be enough?

 

155 IATs with E85 aren't much to worry about. You have another 100* before they start to become a cause for concern.

Use the 625cc nozzle.

 

Basically more fluid= more benefits. I’ve been looking into doing this for about a year and have researched it quite a bit. If what you are doing is working well for you, no reason to change it. But If you want something that truly works the best possible, this is what I’ve found.

E85 is not the best fluid to injection for a few reasons.

First, it has a higher boiling point than gasoline making it a poor choice for charge cooling. The injected fluid can only cool charge temps down to around the fluids boiling point. So if methanol has a boiling point of 148*, you could come close to cooling the charge down to 148*F if you sprayed enough. Straight water is only good to 212* or so, straight ethanol is 173* Ethanol has a higher boiling point than straight gasoline. That said, the more you spray, the more benefit you’ll see until you reach the fluids boiling point.

Second reason is spraying E85 pre-turbo is pretty dangerous due to the low stoich mixtures required for combustion. One backfire out the intake and it’s bomb city. Methanol is better, but still dangerous if your using large volumes. Make sure you have a burst panel, or at least a super adequate BOV (or several). Kevin Jewer played with this recently using 3300cc of methanol preturbo. It worked great, until it blew the top off his engine. (no BOV or burst panel)

You need to calculate the benefits via air/fuel flow numbers. There is no good way to measure actual charge temps with a typical IAT probe. Results will be skewed due to sensor wetting and rapid evaporation. Your numbers are proof of that since they are reporting charge temps lower than the boiling point of the fluid being injected.

General rule of thumb calculated by fuel flow is for 1000lbs/min of airflow...

For every 500cc of straight methanol injected pre turbo, you’ll see about 15* drop in actual charge temps.
At 500lb/min of air, 500cc is worth 30* drop.

So if your focusing strictly on dropping the charge temp and making the turbo more efficient 100% methanol is the way to go. If you are looking at CC cooling it makes sense to spray a small amount of water in the mix post turbo as well. 5gph or so per 1000hp is plenty IMO.

Lastly, If there is no IC, there is zero reason not to spray all your mixture pre-turbo. You are only losing power spraying post. The cooler fluid going into the compressor makes the turbo itself more efficient at its job. The more you spray pre-turbo, the more it shifts everything to the right on the compressor map. I’d move all your injected fluids preturbo with methanol and eliminate the E85 supply. (water being the acception to post turbo injection)

 

Excellent timing, I just picked up a alky control dual m15 nozzle kit. I also plan on spraying windshield washer fluid pre turbo. Look forward to seeing what comes of this

 

That's great info Forcefed. A local guy and I talked about this and he had figured out the boiling points of ethanol and methanol. We knew going in the ethanol was no the best but since it was on board already I gave it a try. I just get these bugs sometimes and a snow stage 2 kit was available so I jumped on it and installed it Saturday

I'll see what happens this weekend, I have a thread in the tuning section about idle timing and egt with e85 and found some interesting data there, so regardless if the air temp sensor gets wetted, I can still tune based on egt data

Ultimately, we wanted the ethanol and/or methanol to evaporate before the sensor, and once we saw a dramatic decrease in temp we would know the sensor was saturated

I'll experiment post and preturbo with the methanol. I'm worried the methanol may erode my billet wheel, hence the e85 injector preturbo. But I'll add two 1/8th ports where the aircleaner mounts and try it out a few passes

I'll order two of the 625ml nozzles

 

Might be able to still use your 210lb injector and feed it with the SNO methanol pump. They put out a surprising amount of fluid at lower pressures.

FWIW I ran methanol on my billet wheel S476 for about 2 years and saw zero signs of blade erosion or corrosion. Not that it couldn’t happen, but in my experience it wasn’t an issue.


This is the pump I use. It has flow VS pressure at the bottom of the page.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...tion-pump.html

 

I think that's the same pump I have in the snow kit. It's a 300psi setup. I'll get through this weekend and see about moving the e85 injector to the meth lines and see what happens. I should run my GoPro up front to see what the spray pattern is doing. I can't run a filter with my setup so I'm stuck with just the inlet flange to mount anything

I'll run them twin 625ml nozzles and turn the dc down on the e85 setup. My first pass the weekend before air temps started at 100* and trapped at 170*

It now my fuel table is all messed up from having an injector down and spraying only half the fuel on one cylinder. So Saturday morning I'm stopping by a local airport for some fuel testing and vss matching under power

 

What about adding some water to this mix, say like 20% or something to help with egt's?

 

Depends how much you are injecting total volume wise. Little water goes a long way. If you were spraying say 50gph of methanol and mixed in 20% water by volume it would probably drown out the spark and hurt you power wise. No good on the injector internals either I wouldn't think. I'd run a really low percentage if you mix water and probably wouldn't spray it through an injector. 5gph or so of straight water per 1000hp is plenty to see the benefits IMO.

Start low (like 2-3%)and work your way up percentage wise watching trap speed or HP #'s to find the max % that doesn't hurt you performance wise.

 

I see. I'm still running ethanol through the injector, and have the twin 625cc nozzles, or 20gph. I was thinking of the added water like street guys use, but since I want more charge cooling thought I'd only mix about 20% water and 80% methanol in the Snow tank