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I’d be looking at that tune real close. If you damaged it at those power/boost levels. Forged pistons aren’t going to solve the issue.
99% of the time don’t want a restrictor on a journal type bearing turbo… Why would this turbo “not require much oil” ? What are you basing this information off of?
Because someone used a restrictor and his turbo lived, that doesn’t make it the correct practice. Use the Garrett journal turbo oil supply and drain specifications for the china stuff and it’s never let me down. If the turbo smokes etc.. you don’t need a restrictor, you need a bigger drain. To my knowledge unless you are running oddly high oil pressure or run a ball bearing turbo… you don’t need/want a restrictor.
There is X amount pressure and flow that should be supplied to a turbo, if you want to be really **** about it, monitor the flow from the drain for 1 minute and the pressure supply pre turbo. If you aren’t doing this and are just guessing you need a restrictor because “the internet said so” , don’t be surprised when the turbo craps out.
I agree with Force Fed, run what ever the manufacture recommends.
My Turbonetics T7875 is ball bearing and Turbonetics does not recommend running an oil restrictor.
I’d be looking at that tune real close. If you damaged it at those power/boost levels. Forged pistons aren’t going to solve the issue.
99% of the time don’t want a restrictor on a journal type bearing turbo… Why would this turbo “not require much oil” ? What are you basing this information off of?
Because someone used a restrictor and his turbo lived, that doesn’t make it the correct practice. Use the Garrett journal turbo oil supply and drain specifications for the china stuff and it’s never let me down. If the turbo smokes etc.. you don’t need a restrictor, you need a bigger drain. To my knowledge unless you are running oddly high oil pressure or run a ball bearing turbo… you don’t need/want a restrictor.
There is X amount pressure and flow that should be supplied to a turbo, if you want to be really **** about it, monitor the flow from the drain for 1 minute and the pressure supply pre turbo. If you aren’t doing this and are just guessing you need a restrictor because “the internet said so” , don’t be surprised when the turbo craps out.
Basing this on personal experience. But hey, what do I know. Op, do what this guy tells you and pray that the turbo lives. I can't remember the size restrictor I was supplied with (told to use), but it's an on3 unit.... and I THINK they use a standard size restrictor plate (not exactly sure on this). I see yours is the vs, but being a Chinese unit...its probably basically the same, other than you having a billet wheel. Thinking back, I'm beginning to think not running a restrictor is what led to the early demise of the last turbo I was using.
Basing this on personal experience. But hey, what do I know. Op, do what this guy tells you and pray that the turbo lives. I can't remember the size restrictor I was supplied with (told to use), but it's an on3 unit.... and I THINK they use a standard size restrictor plate (not exactly sure on this). I see yours is the vs, but being a Chinese unit...its probably basically the same, other than you having a billet wheel. Thinking back, I'm beginning to think not running a restrictor is what led to the early demise of the last turbo I was using.
My cast journal On3 78/75 doesnt use a restrictor, neither did my 76/65.
Factory ring gaps, when I built the engine I wasn't planning on running boost. It was on low boost yes, but I am roughly 11:1 compression. This shortb block has had a rough life, im not surprised it happened.
5# and 13*, 186* iat max, roughly 85* Sunday. New engine rings will be gapped accordingly. Now I can build my 347 lol
Why are your IATs 186 on 5#?. You should have never pinched a ring land at that boost and timing. How much timing is getting pulled at 186*?
99% of the time don’t want a restrictor on a journal type bearing turbo… Why would this turbo “not require much oil” ? What are you basing this information off of?
Because someone used a restrictor and his turbo lived, that doesn’t make it the correct practice. Use the Garrett journal turbo oil supply and drain specifications for the china stuff and it’s never let me down. If the turbo smokes etc.. you don’t need a restrictor, you need a bigger drain. To my knowledge unless you are running oddly high oil pressure or run a ball bearing turbo… you don’t need/want a restrictor.
There is X amount pressure and flow that should be supplied to a turbo, if you want to be really **** about it, monitor the flow from the drain for 1 minute and the pressure supply pre turbo. If you aren’t doing this and are just guessing you need a restrictor because “the internet said so” , don’t be surprised when the turbo craps out.
VS Racing who makes the turbo is who I think told him he needs to run a restrictor. My experience was following their instruction to run 1, and the turbo died.
Basing this on personal experience. But hey, what do I know. Op, do what this guy tells you and pray that the turbo lives. I can't remember the size restrictor I was supplied with (told to use), but it's an on3 unit.... and I THINK they use a standard size restrictor plate (not exactly sure on this). I see yours is the vs, but being a Chinese unit...its probably basically the same, other than you having a billet wheel. Thinking back, I'm beginning to think not running a restrictor is what led to the early demise of the last turbo I was using.
And what are you counting as “personal experience”? Have any data for us? Did you measure the oil flow/pressure? How do you know if you are shortening or extending the life of the turbo by restricting it? Measured bearing tolerances over "X" amount of time with and without a restrictor?
It’s not taking my word for it… it’s taking the manufactures word for it. And all these China Turbos are journal based copies. Most of the time the issue is with a poor drain diameter. Then people try to crutch this with a restrictor which decreases bearing life or worst case scenario destroys the bearing completely.
Straight from Garrett…
"Journal-bearings function similarly to rod or crank bearings in an engine - oil pressure is required to keep components separated. An oil restrictor is generally not needed except for oil-pressure-induced leakage. The recommended oil feed for journal bearing turbochargers is -4AN or hose/tubing with an ID of approximately 0.25. Be sure to use an oil filter that meets or exceeds the OEM specifications.
Straight from Airwerks
6. The oil inlet pipe should be 9.5 mm [0.375 in.] bore minimum and the oil drain pipe should be 19 mm [0.75 in.] bore
minimum. The oil must drain downwards by gravity from the turbocharger into the engine under all operating
conditions.
7. Air cleaner pressure drop should not exceed 500 mm [20 in.] of water. Avoid damp/wet air conditions in filter as this
can dramatically increase pressure drop on a temporary basis.
8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9°F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.
...
11. Oil return pipes are permitted to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.
...
14. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).
15. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 05-09-2017 at 11:56 AM.
VS Racing who makes the turbo is who I think told him he needs to run a restrictor. My experience was following their instruction to run 1, and the turbo died.
I guess it's a crap shoot. I installed this on3 sometime last summer, been jamming ever since. And yes, I street mine almost like it's a daily driver..... so it's got some miles on it.
And what are you counting as “personal experience”? Have any data for us? Did you measure the oil flow/pressure? How do you know if you are shortening or extending the life of the turbo by restricting it? Measured bearing tolerances over "X" amount of time with and without a restrictor?
It’s not taking my word for it… it’s taking the manufactures word for it. And all these China Turbos are journal based copies.
Straight from Garrett…
Straight from Airwerks
Here's the data I have, stock pressure pump.....installed restrictor with turbo last summer (again, like I was told by the vendor). And it's not babied.... nor is it a garage queen that doesn't get driven. It's been spun enough to make 22psi on a 6.0 (probably not efficient at that level) and it's
doing just fine. I'm not going to screw op's thread up with arguing, but I know for a fact that it works on this car of mine. And btw I put miles on this car almost like its a daily driver.
There is no argument, you are giving poor advise. I’m simply correcting it and stating why it’s poor advise. Feel free to ignore me. A healthy turbo should last 200k between overhauls easy. The fact that the turbo didn’t fail within one summer isn’t evidence that your turbo is healthy and it doesn’t prove using restrictor is a good idea. I’ve used them too, when I didn’t know better. I’m just trying to help others from making the same mistakes I did. Not trying to step on any toes.
Im not having drain issues like I initially thought, I lifted a land guys. It shouldn't have done that on this tuneup. I have seen on a few forums that guys are having issues with innovative widenands being off by a good margin. I'm wondering if I do t have an issue with my wideband off or an injector problem. Here is a couple plug pictures. Tonight I'll pull all 8 and lay them out for their respective holes. One electrode is actually green. Anyone have any idea what that's about?
There is no argument, you are giving poor advise. I’m simply correcting it and stating why it’s poor advise. Feel free to ignore me. A healthy turbo should last 200k between overhauls easy. The fact that the turbo didn’t fail within one summer isn’t evidence that your turbo is healthy and it doesn’t prove using restrictor is a good idea. I’ve used them too, when I didn’t know better. I’m just trying to help others from making the same mistakes I did. Not trying to step on any toes.
I wasn't arguing that the restrictor is correct, only that the manufacturer of the turbo said to install 1....and in my experience installing it on THEIR turbo made it fail. Based on the data you provided, you shouldn't have a restrictor. My only other IRL data point was that the Precision turbo I had also had the restrictor per their instructions and lasted 8+years and 10k+miles with no issues when I sold it.
Im not having drain issues like I initially thought, I lifted a land guys. It shouldn't have done that on this tuneup. I have seen on a few forums that guys are having issues with innovative widenands being off by a good margin. I'm wondering if I do t have an issue with my wideband off or an injector problem. Here is a couple plug pictures. Tonight I'll pull all 8 and lay them out for their respective holes. One electrode is actually green. Anyone have any idea what that's about?
2nd pic looks a bit lean. This sucks man, few things worse than having a major problem right after a new setup, and not even being able tho enjoy it for at least a little while.
I wasn't arguing that the restrictor is correct, only that the manufacturer of the turbo said to install 1....and in my experience installing it on THEIR turbo made it fail. Based on the data you provided, you shouldn't have a restrictor. My only other IRL data point was that the Precision turbo I had also had the restrictor per their instructions and lasted 8+years and 10k+miles with no issues when I sold it.
Im not having drain issues like I initially thought, I lifted a land guys. It shouldn't have done that on this tuneup. I have seen on a few forums that guys are having issues with innovative widenands being off by a good margin. I'm wondering if I do t have an issue with my wideband off or an injector problem. Here is a couple plug pictures. Tonight I'll pull all 8 and lay them out for their respective holes. One electrode is actually green. Anyone have any idea what that's about?
What did you have the rings gapped at ? You usually don't lift a ring land unless the ring gap closes up, locking it to the cylinder wall . The extra heat from boost and running a touch lean probably did it, IF the rings are tight.
What did you have the rings gapped at ? You usually don't lift a ring land unless the ring gap closes up, locking it to the cylinder wall . The extra heat from boost and running a touch lean probably did it, IF the rings are tight.
Its not the end of the world, as long as it didn't trash the cylinder see wall I'll be happy. I've got an l33, 2lc9's, an lq4 gen 4, lq9 gen 4, and multiple lm7's. I could be back racing again a day later if I was so inclined, but I'd like to use this ls1 block to build my 347, but I will rip apart one of these lm7 in A heart beat for the block if I need be.
Ring gaps were stock. When i built the car it was all motor, I was going to buy an msd Intake and for the cost of that Intake, i built my turbo setup instead.
I was looking at the reliability list up too and see many people have lifted ring lands on ls1 on low boost, and I have a lot mee compression than stock
Ouch.Shout out to you for jumping on it quick and knocking it out. Hopefully the next motor fares better.
Yea, sucks it trashed the block. Oh well, looks like I'll be building an iron 347. In the mean time, I'm going to regap my l33 and put it in. I'll be back up and ready this weekend, except waiting on injectors
05-09-2017, 08:56 AM
