How far do you guys push 91 fuel?
We had a pre pump inline filter completely plug up before with that black junk, pumps got noisy and started dropping fuel pressure. Filters where completely plugged, and it didn't set either, just a random fill up. I have no ethanol 89 at the coop close to my house, all my small engines and boat always get that.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2015
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How many of you guys running meth kits have ever had problems with them not coming on? Iv really considered doing a meth kit but im afraid of what happens when if it doesnt come on with the factory ecm, theres no way to correct fueling, probably run it at 13.0af and 3 degrees too much timing if it doesn't spray. Im running efi live with a custom 02 operating system, my thoughts where putting a hobs switch inline of the meth kit, once it pressures up that it will activate the nitrous monitor which I would have set to add the timing and correct a/f. Then just have my base tune setup conservative and safe for 91. But idk id it would actually work.
How many of you guys running meth kits have ever had problems with them not coming on? Iv really considered doing a meth kit but im afraid of what happens when if it doesnt come on with the factory ecm, theres no way to correct fueling, probably run it at 13.0af and 3 degrees too much timing if it doesn't spray. Im running efi live with a custom 02 operating system, my thoughts where putting a hobs switch inline of the meth kit, once it pressures up that it will activate the nitrous monitor which I would have set to add the timing and correct a/f. Then just have my base tune setup conservative and safe for 91. But idk id it would actually work.
Im going to look into the watermeth deal a little more, I like that idea better then trying to find e85, was at the fuel station this morning and seen the e85 pump was down again. Would of had to drive 30 miles just to get fuel had it been on e85
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 228
Likes: 2
iv'e been running one for almost 4 years now with no issues though and don't know anyone personally who has had an issue. i replaced the meth pump once for no reason and then been running the current pump for 2 years now without issue. I've heard or people recommending periodic pump replacement but i know some people been running same pump for 5 years no issues so probably nbd.
i just make sure to only use the same funnel for filling up meth only so never get any fuel residue from using that funnel to put gas in something else, which can theoretically hurt the pump. it's such a simple setup it's hard for me to imagine them failing really being any more of an issue other than anything else failing like primary fuel pump or an injector etc
e85 is better but for the price if e85 is not an issue the alky control methanol setups seem to be a no brainer. cheap and easy and super reliable and big improvement in reliability since you have such low IATs and way more octane.
Last edited by neverstop; Aug 1, 2017 at 04:21 PM.
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 228
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also probably not an option if you daily the car but Torco/Boostane is cheap and works well and can be delivered on amazon straight to your door. at a minimum I'd keep a can in the trunk and if you're going to beat on the car pour some in.
The IAT shouldn't be used as a failsafe IMO. An AFR safety setup is much faster at 40-70+ samples per second depending on the sensor you use.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
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Verdad Gallardo All good info and things to think about. I think im going to go with the meth kit, I see alot of people putting the pump and tank in the trunk, which is what I would like to do, wonder how long it take's it to get the air out of the line if it's that long, although I dout it would detonate in the first sec or so anyway till the plugs got hot.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Florida
im interested in the original topic.
i have 93 though.
currently my evo sees ~32psi at about 5* of timing up top and its fine.
my pickup (5.3, 216/216/214 cam) is currently at 18psi at 13* but i want to push that one a lot higher.
has anyone had much experience beyond 20psi on only pump gas?
i have 93 though.
currently my evo sees ~32psi at about 5* of timing up top and its fine.
my pickup (5.3, 216/216/214 cam) is currently at 18psi at 13* but i want to push that one a lot higher.
has anyone had much experience beyond 20psi on only pump gas?
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 228
Likes: 2
The IAT shouldn't be used as a failsafe IMO. An AFR safety setup is much faster at 40-70+ samples per second depending on the sensor you use.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
you're right here in that IAT is not super fast reacting but I do know of cars that have been saved with this method even though maybe not ideal. If you scaled the timing out as IATs rise perhaps the minute the pump failed, the IAT would start to show some increase in temps and pull timing, which in itself should help the motor stay alive even if takes a few seconds to pull complete timing. I will say that when my IAT was first on the car it was sunk back a bit out of the air stream and was super lazy. I changed the way it fit in the intake pipe to be deeper into the air and now reacts way faster.
The guy above said he has seen several meth pumps fail but my own personal opinion from my own car and buddy's cars is that the meth pump reliability fears are kind of overblown and not really a serious issue. I always do a shorter 1 gear test hit before a long pull anyway so if the meth system was having issues I'd see it on the wideband there and I always use the prime button as well so if pump was not working you'd also see it from inability to prime the system too.
these meth systems are game changer imo though. surprised more other platforms don't use them as much.
The IAT shouldn't be used as a failsafe IMO. An AFR safety setup is much faster at 40-70+ samples per second depending on the sensor you use.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
Look at it like this...
Take your open element IAT sensor and hold a hair dryer over it until the temperature stabilizes. Say it stops climbing at 230*. So now you know the air temp coming out of the hair dryer is 230*. Let the sensor go back to ambient. Now hold the sensor in front of the hair dryer again and time how long it takes to go from ambient to 230*. It takes several seconds... By the time the sensor reports 230* back to the ECU again, the motor would be toast if serious detonation had set in. Same issue using it as a failsafe. If the water/meth stopped spraying, by the time your sensor caught up and sent this info to the ECU, it would be too late to save an engine that relies heavily on water/meth to keep it out of detonation.
I don’t tune much on the factory ECU, but I don’t see how you would set that up? What happens when it’s 100* out mid-day. Then 60* out at night? My under hood temps (IAT temps) can fluctuate 20-100* at any given time without boost and a ton more with boost. How are you going to setup a failsafe in a 5-10* window at X amount of boost?
I’ve never tried spraying water on a sensor and recording how quickly it reacts, try it for us. I doubt it reacts fast enough to save an engine that’s detonating heavily, but I’m sure it’s better than nothing. The AEM widebands have a failsafe output you can use to trigger anything you want. Can you rig that into the factory ECU?
I’ve never tried spraying water on a sensor and recording how quickly it reacts, try it for us. I doubt it reacts fast enough to save an engine that’s detonating heavily, but I’m sure it’s better than nothing. The AEM widebands have a failsafe output you can use to trigger anything you want. Can you rig that into the factory ECU?
I don’t tune much on the factory ECU, but I don’t see how you would set that up? What happens when it’s 100* out mid-day. Then 60* out at night? My under hood temps (IAT temps) can fluctuate 20-100* at any given time without boost and a ton more with boost. How are you going to setup a failsafe in a 5-10* window at X amount of boost?
I’ve never tried spraying water on a sensor and recording how quickly it reacts, try it for us. I doubt it reacts fast enough to save an engine that’s detonating heavily, but I’m sure it’s better than nothing. The AEM widebands have a failsafe output you can use to trigger anything you want. Can you rig that into the factory ECU?
I’ve never tried spraying water on a sensor and recording how quickly it reacts, try it for us. I doubt it reacts fast enough to save an engine that’s detonating heavily, but I’m sure it’s better than nothing. The AEM widebands have a failsafe output you can use to trigger anything you want. Can you rig that into the factory ECU?
Its pretty neat, right now I have it set to pull 20 degrees timing between 2700 and 2900 rpm. Have my 2 step at 2800. So if I ever feel the track can hold it, I flip the switch and it builds like 3psi more boost at the line.
So what's the consensus on straight 91 octane pump, no meth or anything?
If I was to add meth it would be purely to reduce intake temps and enhance combustion, the tune wouldn't be dependent upon it.
I would guess that IAT's would play a significant role in how much power could be had?
If I was to add meth it would be purely to reduce intake temps and enhance combustion, the tune wouldn't be dependent upon it.
I would guess that IAT's would play a significant role in how much power could be had?
