ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Neat...and I've seen roots style blower cars start to knock on 93 octane with anything over 12 degrees and confirmed with plug reading.

Loud Mouse

Several SBC roots blown 12.5/1 comp 28psi 36° timing on methanol. Street blown engines I have done 32° to °34 pump 93 15-16psi. SBF roots 12 -14psi pump 93 32°. The engine you referenced must of had mix matched parts that didn't work together. IMHO

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I was starting to wonder if anyone actually understood some of my posts.

Lsxford

iTrader: (6)

The 2014 F150 3.5 ecoboost (not direct injected) that I scanned myself went to 10.5- 10.8 (per the factory WB sensors) and 9* of advance at wot. The 4 cyl ecoboost cars I've messed with did about the same, except the mustang it went to 14* or so

stevieturbo

Certainly every single factory turbo Subaru runs deep in the 10's under heavy load. You obviously havent tuned many cars if you think none run rich.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

It was a factory roots motor with headers and a pulley....but keep making completely irrelevant posts referencing methanol and direct injection motors....

Loud Mouse

Aint no roots sbc set up correctly gonna want jus 12° timing. If it was knocking then it was from too hot of cylinders from lack of timing. The diffence in power of a blown sbc with 6° more of timing can be worth upwards of a 100hp at wot. That and those using turbos is free hp if you know how to harness it

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Who said it was a SBC? I don't believe I ever stated that, I said SBE (stock bottom end). I have zero failures from richer/less timing vs. leaner/more timing so obviously somethings working. FL weather, some daily driven/daily boosted, upwards of 19 psi on 93 octane...and we drag race them too. Guess we suck and have no idea what we're doing. Have you ever damaged a motor?

Loud Mouse

Well being that I was referencing SBC and u made the comment about my post I jus thought u were talking about a sbc also. My bad. Have I ever blown up an engine, hell yes. A bunch of them in my early days, thats how I know what works and what dont. But most of the blown engines were with 700/800 hp of N02 on them. As for boosted engines not ever had much problems other than part failures like springs breaking, lifter failures wiping out a cams, had a holley carb come apart and sent boosters, vent tube and some other parts through the blower and into the engine. 30yrs of my experience is from inline 6cyl fords, sbc bbc and in the last few years the LS and Ecotec engines. In the 90s 1/4 racing I was the one that out ran the $25000 engines with a $7000 set up. Over and over again. Mid nines in those days with a 3700 lb daily driver was pretty damn fast. Drive to the track and drive home an hour each way. 2 to 3 times a month. These LS engines with an ECM is easy as hell compared to doing it the manual way of years past. But once you learn to tune, its all relevant, the one you just did is the same as the one your doing now jus a different engine trying to find what it likes. Never said any person on this site was a bad tuner jus that there might be additional power left unfound if ya dont know where the limit is. A good tuner will find that limit b4 he crosses it. Good luck with ur racing and enjoy it while ur here.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

At least we can agree that there is more power left on the table with additional timing. I choose to sacrifice power for the sake of reliability. Where we differ is that you think running lesser timing than MBT is dangerous and I don't, that's all.

Loud Mouse

agreed with a little twist, I feel that low timing when combined with a rich mixture leaves unburnt fuel that can accumulate and that can and will cause problems. Contamination of the oil will also result. Now I'm no guru or high paid tuner, jus an ole motor head that still loves HP only trying to help not discourage.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

That's fair. And my twist is that if its tuned for MBT timing, you leave no margin for a bad tank of gas or high IAT/heat soak. Also less margin should fuel pressure drop for whatever reason.

Loud Mouse

High IATs bad fuel, thats why we have an ecu/ecm to control what we can't. Ecu programed to pull timing if over the safe temp and if knock is detected to pull timing until knock is gone. That is jus too easy to write into the tune to protect the engine. Now do that without an ecu while still trying to stay at the top of ur game and making consistant back to back passes from early morning mid day to late afternoon while keeping the car hooked up. Back to the fuel, I can say aside from a sitting tank of gas, Ive never ran into a bad tank of fuel from the pump or race gas. Ethanol in the new fuels helps tremendously with a cushion as u call it. Now pushing a relatively stock engine past the limits for more power than it's design, well **** happens and parts will fail in time. I have seen time and time again where $30,000, $50,000 engines and more self destruct with very little run time. Was it part failure or tune, never seeing the build sheet or tear down, prob the result of the tune combined with the applied load. Lug a high hp engine and she's likely to rattle apart.

TrendSetter

thanks guys, i almost thought i would be bored through lunch

TrendSetter

everyone always spends so much time so afraid of the boogey man that almost never shows up.
just keep adding timing a degree or two at a time til you crank a ring land, then back it off a little.

on a more serious note, i like 11.8 afrs past 10psi and 14* at 14psi ala sloppy has been my go-to timing

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

This forum is littered with examples of over-timing both in this section and in the N2O section. And now we're comparing SBE to $30-$50k engines....I'm sure they're all real street cars on regular gas too. Like I said, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.....but until my stuff blows up I'm pretty happy with my method.

Loud Mouse

man o man, no where did I compare a OEM engine to a high dollar engine. I gave an example that no matter what engine you have if the tune is off and you subject that engine to too much load, it will not live. I don't studder nor do I type in tongues. Maybe the post should be read again you obviously missed everything.

TrendSetter

Have you ever gotten a tank of bad gas? the only time ive seen the indicator of bad fuel is once in my evo. the evo will flash the CEL light when it sees more than like 5 knock counts, and one tank made it flash a lot more than usual.
almost two years ago i switched to only using shell. ive always used only 93 in cars that care.

Loud Mouse

I buy about 12 to 15,000 gallons per year and I say that never have I had a problem. 4 of my vehicles are turbo daily drivers and 3 of the 4 are tuned strong. Never a burnt plug, ring piston high engine temp DIC light on nothing. Maybe I'm jus lucky that the fuel gets used fast around here and doesn't have time to go bad. LOL

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Apparently you're missing the entire point of this thread. Unless you have specific experience with high horsepower stock bottom end, 91-93 octane experience, its not relevant. No race gas, no direct injection, no meth, no built motors. That's what the rest of us are talking about. You claim no OEM runs in the 10's, yet at least 2 of us have seen it in factory tunes and disproven that claim.

Funny you should ask that. A buddy went to half a dozen local pumps and pulled 93 octane and had it tested and the variation was NOT good. I don't have the specific data, but it was enough to scare me. Factory LS Fbody tunes have a high and low octane table with a scalar that will take a percentage between the 2 tables depending on knock counts. My thought, is that if its picking up knock and starts to go between the 2 tables, it's already too late. ANY knock is how you damage a hyper eutectic piston. Built stuff you can be much closer to the edge, but for OEM stuff I completely admit I am more conservative. A lot of other people also copy the high octane table to the low octane table because they don't want the timing moving around on them, especially with false knock.