LS3 Throttle Response - Stock TB or 102?
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From: New Zealand
LS3 Throttle Response - Stock TB or 102? Any real world experience of both on same combo?
Was the difference really noticed or minor?
Off boost part throttle?
Tip in vs Mash it
I currently run a 102 billet TB (DBW) with piping from the intercooler that runs from 2.5" outlets to 4" into the TB. I was wondering about going going down to a stock TB to pick up response. I doubt there would be any power loss as I'm not pushing hard and won't see north of 1000rw. If the difference is not great I'll stick with what I have.
Looking to build a forged blueprinted LS3 with stock stroke but run Darton MID sleeves and take it to 4.125" bores, add studs top and bottom and build a durable 388 that I can lean on lap after lap and day after day. I can't afford ITBs so thought I'd stick with the stock LS3 intake and wondering if TB is ok being so big.
At same time as forging engine I'll downsize exhaust to turbos to 2 x 2.25" inlets and coat and wrap the entire thing to retain heat and build velocity. Hopefully that will drop boost threshold 500rpm and add a little more hp/psi over the LT headers.
Was the difference really noticed or minor?
Off boost part throttle?
Tip in vs Mash it
I currently run a 102 billet TB (DBW) with piping from the intercooler that runs from 2.5" outlets to 4" into the TB. I was wondering about going going down to a stock TB to pick up response. I doubt there would be any power loss as I'm not pushing hard and won't see north of 1000rw. If the difference is not great I'll stick with what I have.
Looking to build a forged blueprinted LS3 with stock stroke but run Darton MID sleeves and take it to 4.125" bores, add studs top and bottom and build a durable 388 that I can lean on lap after lap and day after day. I can't afford ITBs so thought I'd stick with the stock LS3 intake and wondering if TB is ok being so big.
At same time as forging engine I'll downsize exhaust to turbos to 2 x 2.25" inlets and coat and wrap the entire thing to retain heat and build velocity. Hopefully that will drop boost threshold 500rpm and add a little more hp/psi over the LT headers.
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From: Norn Iron
the rearmounts will kill response more than any TB will, so anything to improve spool ability will be more worthwhile than any larger throttle.
Dale ran the little RX3 to around 2000hp with a standard 90mm TB.....mayhbe a little more. So there is simply no need or benefit from larger on a boosted build like that.
102 is just pointless really.
Dale ran the little RX3 to around 2000hp with a standard 90mm TB.....mayhbe a little more. So there is simply no need or benefit from larger on a boosted build like that.
102 is just pointless really.
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From: New Zealand
Agreed. Pointless to buy if starting again - but they are already there so if they are not hurting anything - pointless to take off and buy a stock one lol.
Agreed re mid mounted turbos - I will be greatly increasing the velocity and heat in the exhaust to fix that best I can - I think we'll get close to a front mount with some help from heat insulation and downsizing smoothly.to reduce turbulence. From manifold/collector to turbos will be only 2 bends of any consequence - which I can make long and smooth.
Agreed re mid mounted turbos - I will be greatly increasing the velocity and heat in the exhaust to fix that best I can - I think we'll get close to a front mount with some help from heat insulation and downsizing smoothly.to reduce turbulence. From manifold/collector to turbos will be only 2 bends of any consequence - which I can make long and smooth.
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Yes, great value, but I want MID sleeves for superior cooling - very important for the hot lapping and endurance events I do. Dry sleeves are fine for street and drag racing, but are harder to keep cool once heat soaked..
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From: Norn Iron
I think the MID sleeves are basically wet liners, whereas some other styles will insert a liner into the block structure, without fully machining it away...so a dry liner.
Some may think the wet liner is better for cooling etc. I'd say in reality there is no difference.
And where possible...I'd always try and avoid aftermarket liners in the first place. They seem to be hit or miss to get them right...and when yours goes wrong, it's a massive **** up.
Some may think the wet liner is better for cooling etc. I'd say in reality there is no difference.
And where possible...I'd always try and avoid aftermarket liners in the first place. They seem to be hit or miss to get them right...and when yours goes wrong, it's a massive **** up.
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From: New Zealand
I think the MID sleeves are basically wet liners, whereas some other styles will insert a liner into the block structure, without fully machining it away...so a dry liner.
Some may think the wet liner is better for cooling etc. I'd say in reality there is no difference.
And where possible...I'd always try and avoid aftermarket liners in the first place. They seem to be hit or miss to get them right...and when yours goes wrong, it's a massive **** up.
Some may think the wet liner is better for cooling etc. I'd say in reality there is no difference.
And where possible...I'd always try and avoid aftermarket liners in the first place. They seem to be hit or miss to get them right...and when yours goes wrong, it's a massive **** up.
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From: New Zealand
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From: Norn Iron
I'd agree that for a street trip type motor or drag engine there'd be little difference if any. For circuit racing, hot lapping, closed road events etc where cars have to run hot for extended periods there would be a notable difference I'd expect. The problems with them stem from inferior machining/workmanship. MID sleeves are no job for a backstreet machinist. Done right they're awesome and they can be found in some pretty exotic engines. The best Dart blocks have them as their premium option - including their billet blocks
Even the likes of an LS9 supercharged vehicle from the factory, I'm sure they've done more extensive and abusive testing than any road racer ever would prior to the vehicle ever getting released.
it seems sleeves in general are no job...for many machinists. To date....I've only ever had bad experiences with any re-sleeved blocks, of any manufacturer. Hence my first choice will always be a factory block, until I see real evidence to the contrary !
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From: New Zealand
I'd imagine the old C5R, Katech endurance race stuff was not re-lined blocks ? Nor wet sleeves ?
Even the likes of an LS9 supercharged vehicle from the factory, I'm sure they've done more extensive and abusive testing than any road racer ever would prior to the vehicle ever getting released.
it seems sleeves in general are no job...for many machinists. To date....I've only ever had bad experiences with any re-sleeved blocks, of any manufacturer. Hence my first choice will always be a factory block, until I see real evidence to the contrary !
Even the likes of an LS9 supercharged vehicle from the factory, I'm sure they've done more extensive and abusive testing than any road racer ever would prior to the vehicle ever getting released.
it seems sleeves in general are no job...for many machinists. To date....I've only ever had bad experiences with any re-sleeved blocks, of any manufacturer. Hence my first choice will always be a factory block, until I see real evidence to the contrary !
Factory OEM blocks have to be economic, and they do not have to hold 1000hp. I talk to a few top shelf race engine builders - not one of them rate the LS blocks for serious power. Compared to the serious aftermarket blocks they use, the amount of shift and long line of breakages they've seen - they just won't use them anymore. So I feel a bit alone trying to make it work... when everyone is saying to me "**** it go buy an RHS and be done with it". That's another 3k. Katech uses RHS on all its top builds, but that does give them a lot more leeway. Before I sleeve - I will be talking to Katech and RED and Texas and anyone else that has 1st hand experience.
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Well Cletus had a 5.3/427 block from Texas speed . Went over 300 passes twin turbo
Without issues . They freshened it up and put it in the red vette he has now . Only change is they
Machined it for 1/2 studs .
Without issues . They freshened it up and put it in the red vette he has now . Only change is they
Machined it for 1/2 studs .
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From: Norn Iron
Although in some of the videos they clearly had issues requiring heads removal and gasket replacement. Not always unexpected at such power levels...but it isnt "without issue"