Intercooler brand
01-06-2020, 12:06 PM
#21
No, you're not going to lose a bunch of boost.
01-06-2020, 12:09 PM
#22
9 Second Club
how much loss, depends on how much you're trying to put through it. They're all variables.
01-06-2020, 12:24 PM
#23
Okay thanks guys. Either way whatever boost I push it’s not going to be a track car anyhow just a weekend warrior around town once awhile. So unless I’m driving it around when it’s 100+ outside I should be fine.
01-06-2020, 12:27 PM
#24
What exactly would be the ideal comparison though?
Pre/post temps might not correlate to pre/post pressure, or power.
What if you test 2 intercoolers and the one with better temperature drop makes less power but at less PSI,
do you increase boost to try and match the boost curve of the one with less temp drop, more pressure drop, but higher final boost pressure and power?
Pre/post temps might not correlate to pre/post pressure, or power.
What if you test 2 intercoolers and the one with better temperature drop makes less power but at less PSI,
do you increase boost to try and match the boost curve of the one with less temp drop, more pressure drop, but higher final boost pressure and power?
For the vast majority of people the Treadstone or Bell level of IC is perfectly fine, used both at 1000+hp logs were all good. Would I like a Garrett, sure but I don't want to pay extra for it when something cheaper works for my power level. As you say, who cares what boost level is at!
Very true, there comes a point where you run out of boost. You cant pulley down or spin it any harder and you have to increase efficiency.
01-06-2020, 12:37 PM
#25
Typically the IC that have higher pressure drop across the core don't cool significantly better, usually quite the opposite the lower pressure drop IC perform better. If you have wastegate pinned shut and the turbo will only make 35PSI, the IC restricting flow is not going to make as much power as the core that allows 35PSI to the manifold.
So if they have poor intake flow going through them from bad design, they also have poor flow passing over the cooling fins for the same reasons.
Doesn't always hold true though, in the cases of using intercoolers that are too small.
The core design can be phenomenal, with too few rows to flow the appropriate amount of air, but the air passing through the cooling fins are able to cool with incredible efficiency.
Splitting hairs I assume, but would prove relevant in a test.
I guess the best way would be to test 3 intercoolers of identical dimensions for temp/pressure drop and power.
I have identical ebay and treadstone intercoolers already, I just don't think its worth the cash to get a Garrett core for this test alone.
01-06-2020, 02:27 PM
#26
That really only holds true in typical circumstances, not all, because most intercoolers stick to one consistent design throughout.
So if they have poor intake flow going through them from bad design, they also have poor flow passing over the cooling fins for the same reasons.
Doesn't always hold true though, in the cases of using intercoolers that are too small.
The core design can be phenomenal, with too few rows to flow the appropriate amount of air, but the air passing through the cooling fins are able to cool with incredible efficiency.
Splitting hairs I assume, but would prove relevant in a test.
I guess the best way would be to test 3 intercoolers of identical dimensions for temp/pressure drop and power.
I have identical ebay and treadstone intercoolers already, I just don't think its worth the cash to get a Garrett core for this test alone.
So if they have poor intake flow going through them from bad design, they also have poor flow passing over the cooling fins for the same reasons.
Doesn't always hold true though, in the cases of using intercoolers that are too small.
The core design can be phenomenal, with too few rows to flow the appropriate amount of air, but the air passing through the cooling fins are able to cool with incredible efficiency.
Splitting hairs I assume, but would prove relevant in a test.
I guess the best way would be to test 3 intercoolers of identical dimensions for temp/pressure drop and power.
I have identical ebay and treadstone intercoolers already, I just don't think its worth the cash to get a Garrett core for this test alone.
Would just be easier to get someone to loan me their nice intercooler haha.
01-06-2020, 08:08 PM
#28
Teching In
Thread Starter
At the end of the day , isn't it all about efficiency ? I.e. how easy and quickly a turbo spools and easy and quickly the engine receives the pressurized air .
01-06-2020, 11:43 PM
#29
COOL pressurized air. Coolest air MASS with the least amount of pressure lost between the compressor and the intake valve. Keep in mind any restriction to the Intake also affects backpressure prior to the turbine. Backpressure pre turbine costs power.
01-07-2020, 03:52 AM
#30
Of course there are plenty of bad intercoolers. ***** core design, shitty open tubes, or very restrictive tubes etc etc.
I would even class my own extruded core design as fairly bad. It probably flows very well, but cooling abilities would be pretty ****.
If only Garrett would get their ******* act together and make the core size I want...and actually have it for sale, instead of listing it everywhere and it not being available !
But it's a little naive on the technology or whatever way you want to call it. A simple tube with a few fins could be classed as an intercooler...and not a new design either. But actual implementation of that "heat exchanger technology" would be ****. But it is a heat exchanger.
I would even class my own extruded core design as fairly bad. It probably flows very well, but cooling abilities would be pretty ****.
If only Garrett would get their ******* act together and make the core size I want...and actually have it for sale, instead of listing it everywhere and it not being available !
But it's a little naive on the technology or whatever way you want to call it. A simple tube with a few fins could be classed as an intercooler...and not a new design either. But actual implementation of that "heat exchanger technology" would be ****. But it is a heat exchanger.
01-07-2020, 08:18 AM
#31
There isn't a cheap core out there that has the turbulator density the Garrett does... Fact. This is why they are very efficient
And you can't lump all the cheap coolers into one... There are diffent designs
The typical bar plate like the treadstone and CX are not going to have dick for pressure drop. The turbulator density is wide open..... It flows great, thermally .... Meh
Then you have the cheap tube cores.... Those you are damn right can flow like dick and have major pressure drop
There are 2 parts to a cooler.... Thermal exchanger and flow volume
Why you can take different combos at the same power level and have different needs.
Take a 3L 2jz or a 6.0 lsx running at 1500hp
The 2jz is only going to have ~ half the flow volume (airspeed) in the core...... But yet have much more heat to deal with from the higher PR
The LS is far less heat but far more flow volume.... Even at identical power levels (mass air flow through core)
And you can't lump all the cheap coolers into one... There are diffent designs
The typical bar plate like the treadstone and CX are not going to have dick for pressure drop. The turbulator density is wide open..... It flows great, thermally .... Meh
Then you have the cheap tube cores.... Those you are damn right can flow like dick and have major pressure drop
There are 2 parts to a cooler.... Thermal exchanger and flow volume
Why you can take different combos at the same power level and have different needs.
Take a 3L 2jz or a 6.0 lsx running at 1500hp
The 2jz is only going to have ~ half the flow volume (airspeed) in the core...... But yet have much more heat to deal with from the higher PR
The LS is far less heat but far more flow volume.... Even at identical power levels (mass air flow through core)
Last edited by rotary1307cc; 01-07-2020 at 08:35 AM.
01-07-2020, 10:36 AM
#32
There isn't a cheap core out there that has the turbulator density the Garrett does... Fact. This is why they are very efficient The typical bar plate like the treadstone and CX are not going to have dick for pressure drop. The turbulator density is wide open..... It flows great, thermally .... Meh
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01-07-2020, 11:14 AM
#33
Who is arguing what you can get away with or not??
Why would you use any cooler at all?? What a waste.. guys do it hot air. You could save the precious 300$...
1500$ upgrade? Lol mmmk
Why would you use any cooler at all?? What a waste.. guys do it hot air. You could save the precious 300$...
1500$ upgrade? Lol mmmk
01-07-2020, 11:47 AM
#36
9 Second Club
Here's a decent size Garrett core for only $450.
It really isnt that hard to make up some end tanks. Or you could even buy a cheap **** IC for $100 and cut the end tanks off and use them
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intercooler...IAAOSwS3NcXeBc
And to even suggest a cheap ***** China core is made the same and is as efficient as a proper Garrett core...clearly has zero understanding of what one does, and how it is constructed.
This is a very old article now, but still decent info and examples to cover the basics
https://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
It really isnt that hard to make up some end tanks. Or you could even buy a cheap **** IC for $100 and cut the end tanks off and use them
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intercooler...IAAOSwS3NcXeBc
And to even suggest a cheap ***** China core is made the same and is as efficient as a proper Garrett core...clearly has zero understanding of what one does, and how it is constructed.
This is a very old article now, but still decent info and examples to cover the basics
https://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
01-07-2020, 01:12 PM
#38
Chiseled has the biggest Garrett 5.1" core for under a grand
http://chiseledperformance.net/intercoolers.htm
http://chiseledperformance.net/intercoolers.htm
1300HP Air To Air Intercooler
- Garrett Bar and Plate Core
- Core Measures 27.8x 12.7 x 5.1
- Overall 32.5 x 12.7 x 5.1
- Bell Bar and Plate Core
- Core Measures 18x 12 x 6
- Overal size 22.5 x 12 x 6
01-08-2020, 08:20 AM
#39
Teching In
Thread Starter
Here's a decent size Garrett core for only $450.
It really isnt that hard to make up some end tanks. Or you could even buy a cheap **** IC for $100 and cut the end tanks off and use them
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intercooler...IAAOSwS3NcXeBc
And to even suggest a cheap ***** China core is made the same and is as efficient as a proper Garrett core...clearly has zero understanding of what one does, and how it is constructed.
This is a very old article now, but still decent info and examples to cover the basics
https://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
It really isnt that hard to make up some end tanks. Or you could even buy a cheap **** IC for $100 and cut the end tanks off and use them
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intercooler...IAAOSwS3NcXeBc
And to even suggest a cheap ***** China core is made the same and is as efficient as a proper Garrett core...clearly has zero understanding of what one does, and how it is constructed.
This is a very old article now, but still decent info and examples to cover the basics
https://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm
funny side note , I've Ben to the HOLLEY LS fest in Kentucky and talked to people with turbo cars/trucks , and asked them if the dynoed or dyno tuned it . their answer ... No , I got it off eBay .wich tells me try are just after a LOOK of intimidation .
01-08-2020, 09:02 AM
#40
DAM !!! that's a long read... But has a ton of info . I wonder how many actually red it.
funny side note , I've Ben to the HOLLEY LS fest in Kentucky and talked to people with turbo cars/trucks , and asked them if the dynoed or dyno tuned it . their answer ... No , I got it off eBay .wich tells me try are just after a LOOK of intimidation .
funny side note , I've Ben to the HOLLEY LS fest in Kentucky and talked to people with turbo cars/trucks , and asked them if the dynoed or dyno tuned it . their answer ... No , I got it off eBay .wich tells me try are just after a LOOK of intimidation .