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Great, thanks for the info. I guess since this is working out well for you and your AC temps are nice and cold coming out of the vents, the hot air coming off the FMIC going directly into the AC condenser is not hot enough to affect the efficiency of the condenser. I need the upgraded 1300 Race FMIC that Brute Speed offers. Not sure of its dimensions, I will check.
But doing this is a must, I know the set up will overheat. It will overheat now on a 95*F day if I'm in slow or stop and go traffic with the AC ON. Soo as I move the temps drop from 225*F down to 195*F in a matter of 1 minute. Slowing down or sitting in traffic kills it just as fast.
A custom AC shop in my town told me to use two smaller AC condensers connected in series and it will be easier to find a space for it. They said to install the Supercharger kit first, then bring it over to them without my AC condenser in the car and they will get it done. They showed me a couple cars with two smaller condensers in series that looked pretty cool. One was a large old 1960's car with a lot of room though.
Maybe I can just tell them to do for me what you did to your car.
The problem with the Fbody is to find a place where you have room for two condensers while at the same time have a good source of air for the fans mounted on each condenser. The other issue is that the AC system IMO was never adequate to keep the interior reasonably cool in extremely high temps while city blvd cruising and/or stuck in traffic crawling along at 5 to 15 mph. And then there's all the glass in the Camaro: huge front glass, huge rear glass, along with the glass in the t-tops.
As a result I had to compromise and locate the AC condenser behind the ATI fmic.
Make sure your AC man understands the above when calculating the size of the condensers and the amount of air flow required to keep the R34 from boiling.
Also demand high quality efficient condensers. Count the rows per inch. A condenser mfg can save a bunch of dollars by producing a condenser with only 18 rows compared to a high quality condenser with maybe 20 rows. Width and thickness also makes a difference. It's all about surface area and air flow across the fins as to how well the freon navigates it way thru the condenser. The newer style condenser and how they are constructed might be better than what GM was mfg 20 years ago.
The molecules in R134 are also significantly smaller. As a result you can pack more molecules per cu inch resulting in more surface area due to number of molecules per cu inc. Notice how thin the condenser is in a GTO compared to the stock condenser in a 1998 - 2002 Camaro. I tossed the stock Camaro condenser and now use a thinner universal condenser. It's reasonably inexpensive but think that a higher priced high quality condenser might be more efficient.
A good AC can explain all of this you when he specs your condenser size.
You might talk to the folks at Cold Hose in Florida. Get a second opinion. They lengthened my AC hoses and converted the connection ends to -6an and -8an.
I bought their fitting's crimper set to complete the last two AN hose ends - wasn't sure how long the hoses needed be for the final connection. A local Napa store might crimp them for you or your local AC vendor. Use high quality Goodyear hose. I used the small circumference hose. Its bend radius is smaller than the larger hose.
The fittings are fairly inexpensive (Cold Hose). Everything to lengthen the hoses was less than $100 not including the crimper kit. A local AC shop wanted over $250 to crimp and add length to each hose.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; Apr 3, 2021 at 12:38 PM.
Reason: edit content
Bob I saw a post from you a couple years ago stating that you were able to get 18 to 20psi out of the F1A on a 408 stroker. I’m replacing my 5.3l which currently has the D1X on it, for a 408 stroker. The 5.3l was pulling right at 22psi on the D1X with a 10% lower pulley and a 3.8” upper. My question is what boost will I know have on the 408(10:1 compression)with this same setup? I know it’s hard to tell but I did find a formula that tells me my D1X will be maxed out at 14lbs or so. Do you think this is accurate? If it is what Procharger would you think could get me closer to that 20psi level? Thanks
The problem with the Fbody is to find a place where you have room for two condensers while at the same time have a good source of air for the fans mounted on each condenser. The other issue is that the AC system IMO was never adequate to keep the interior reasonably cool in extremely high temps while city blvd cruising and/or stuck in traffic crawling along at 5 to 15 mph. And then there's all the glass in the Camaro: huge front glass, huge rear glass, along with the glass in the t-tops.
As a result I had to compromise and locate the AC condenser behind the ATI fmic.
Make sure your AC man understands the above when calculating the size of the condensers and the amount of air flow required to keep the R34 from boiling.
Also demand high quality efficient condensers. Count the rows per inch. A condenser mfg can save a bunch of dollars by producing a condenser with only 18 rows compared to a high quality condenser with maybe 20 rows. Width and thickness also makes a difference. It's all about surface area and air flow across the fins as to how well the freon navigates it way thru the condenser. The newer style condenser and how they are constructed might be better than what GM was mfg 20 years ago.
The molecules in R134 are also significantly smaller. As a result you can pack more molecules per cu inch resulting in more surface area due to number of molecules per cu inc. Notice how thin the condenser is in a GTO compared to the stock condenser in a 1998 - 2002 Camaro. I tossed the stock Camaro condenser and now use a thinner universal condenser. It's reasonably inexpensive but think that a higher priced high quality condenser might be more efficient.
A good AC can explain all of this you when he specs your condenser size.
You might talk to the folks at Cold Hose in Florida. Get a second opinion. They lengthened my AC hoses and converted the connection ends to -6an and -8an.
I bought their fitting's crimper set to complete the last two AN hose ends - wasn't sure how long the hoses needed be for the final connection. A local Napa store might crimp them for you or your local AC vendor. Use high quality Goodyear hose. I used the small circumference hose. Its bend radius is smaller than the larger hose.
The fittings are fairly inexpensive (Cold Hose). Everything to lengthen the hoses was less than $100 not including the crimper kit. A local AC shop wanted over $250 to crimp and add length to each hose.
Thanks man....nice work. I hope I can get the same result.
I guess the ultra thin, but new style better condenser behind the FMIC is best. I guess heat coming off of a FMIC is not as much as the heat coming off an AC condenser so it won't effect the efficiancy of the AC condesner. I guess while out of boost the FMIC isn't so warm.
How thick is your FMIC? I need to use the 1300 HP upgraded FMIC but not sure how thick it is.
This is the ATI FMIC that I installed on my 1998 Z28 (first link below). It is 29 X 12 X 4.5wide and is shown in one of pics in a previous post. The bracket posts are welded on either side of the intercooler.
You need to check with Bob at Brute and/or ATI tech support and ask if this is the same intercooler included in 1300 HP FMIC and pipe kit (link below).
The intercooler will heatsoak some during light cruise with my D1 running the ATI vented red race valve. Not sure about your F series while out of boost comparing heat from the F series VS the D1. Might ask Bob. When you compress air it heats up. Since you will be using the non vented Race valve it expels more air than my vented valve. The non vented race valve was too loud for me so I replaced it with the vented version.
TIP: either of these valves come with nylon vacuum tubing with brass fittings as opposed to rubber vacuum line. IMO - don't skimp here by using rubber vacuum line because it's easier to install and over time it will dry rot at the connection ends. If you need more line length Bob can get the nylon vacuum line by the foot.
FWIW
The Corvette C7 ZO6 had overheating issues when tracked in the early production years (part of the reason was that they tested at 85 degrees ambient (dah ?) The pass/fail test now in the 2018 and 2019 models years is 100 degrees (Z06 only - there are no issues with the GrandSport models that are not supercharged). I might be off by by 1 or two but I think they have about 10 plus radiators and coolers on the car to keep the temps down. It appears that they never increased the size of the condenser. If you want AC you have to make some compromises so the engineers added extra radiators to increase fluid volume and surface area.
So what's my point? Even with all of the knowledge and resources GM has, they still got it wrong the first few years.
My system that some might call a hack job works for me. I can't guarantee that it might work for you because of the F series SC and the amount of boost that you want to run. If your coolant temps stay within limits, but your IAT's still are too high, you might have to add a methanol system to get IAT's down.
There room on the driver side to hang the pump using the ATI side brackets with their kit.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; Apr 5, 2021 at 11:49 AM.
Reason: edit content
This is the ATI FMIC that I installed on my 1998 Z28 (first link below). It is 29 X 12 X 4.5wide and is shown in one of pics in a previous post. The bracket posts are welded on either side of the intercooler.
You need to check with Bob at Brute and/or ATI tech support and ask if this is the same intercooler included in 1300 HP FMIC and pipe kit (link below).
The intercooler will heatsoak some during light cruise with my D1 running the ATI vented red race valve. Not sure about your F series while out of boost comparing heat from the F series VS the D1. Might ask Bob. When you compress air it heats up. Since you will be using the non vented Race valve it expels more air than my vented valve. The non vented race valve was too loud for me so I replaced it with the vented version.
TIP: either of these valves come with nylon vacuum tubing with brass fittings as opposed to rubber vacuum line. IMO - don't skimp here by using rubber vacuum line because it's easier to install and over time it will dry rot at the connection ends. If you need more line length Bob can get the nylon vacuum line by the foot.
FWIW
The Corvette C7 ZO6 had overheating issues when tracked in the early production years (part of the reason was that they tested at 85 degrees ambient (dah ?) The pass/fail test now in the 2018 and 2019 models years is 100 degrees (Z06 only - there are no issues with the GrandSport models that are not supercharged). I might be off by by 1 or two but I think they have about 10 plus radiators and coolers on the car to keep the temps down. It appears that they never increased the size of the condenser. If you want AC you have to make some compromises so the engineers added extra radiators to increase fluid volume and surface area.
So what's my point? Even with all of the knowledge and resources GM has, they still got it wrong the first few years.
My system that some might call a hack job works for me. I can't guarantee that it might work for you because of the F series SC and the amount of boost that you want to run. If your coolant temps stay within limits, but your IAT's still are too high, you might have to add a methanol system to get IAT's down.
There room on the driver side to hang the pump using the ATI side brackets with their kit.
Bob said the 1300 HP FMIC is 27x12x4.5.....so I'm good if thats the same thickness you have.
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