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I assume this means there are very few 98-02 FBodys running the F-1A-94 on a street car?
I run the Aster bracket with my F1A-94, 2000 ws6 21# boost, i personally think you won't see these boost numbers with another bracket. without slip anyways.....
I run the Aster bracket with my F1A-94, 2000 ws6 21# boost, i personally think you won't see these boost numbers with another bracket. without slip anyways.....
So the Asters main purpose is to help with belt slip? I did not know that.
Procharger recently introduced a new and improved J Bracket with an idler pulley and belt tensioner. Both in combination create more belt wrap which reduces belt slip. Check with Bob at Brute Speed for customer reviews if any.
Gates RPM blower belts don't stretch like the Gates Green belt. Belt stretch causes belt slip.
A larger crank pulley also helps to eliminate belt slip because it has more belt wrap than a smaller crank pulley (8.65 compared to 7.65 crank pulley). A larger crank pulley reduces the need for a smaller pulley on the charger head unit. The smaller the pulley on the head unit means less belt wrap and/or more likely to have belt slip.
An Aster bracket requires an upgrade to the LS2 water pump because of clearance issues with the bell on the LS1 water pump.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; Mar 28, 2021 at 12:25 PM.
Reason: edit content
Procharger recently introduced a new and improved J Bracket with an idler pulley and belt tensioner. Both in combination create more belt wrap which reduces belt slip. Check with Bob at Brute Speed for customer reviews if any.
Gates RPM blower belts don't stretch like the Gates Green belt. Belt stretch causes belt slip.
A larger crank pulley also helps to eliminate belt slip because it has more belt wrap than a smaller crank pulley (8.65 compared to 7.65 crank pulley). A larger crank pulley reduces the need for a smaller pulley on the charger head unit. The smaller the pulley on the head unit means less belt wrap and/or more likely to have belt slip.
An Aster bracket requires an upgrade to the LS2 water pump because of clearance issues with the bell on the LS1 water pump.
So if you don't use the Aster or the "J" bracket.......how else is the SC'er mounted in place? Will a 10-rib belt slip at 20-21psi without the Aster or the "J" brackets?
So if you don't use the Aster or the "J" bracket.......how else is the SC'er mounted in place? Will a 10-rib belt slip at 20-21psi without the Aster or the "J" brackets?
I have a D1 and the Aster Bracket but am only making about 10 to twelve lbs of boost. I have no need to make 20 lbs of boost so the Aster Bracket works just fine.
If you plan to run that much boost I would suggest the ATI bracket and tensioner with the 10 rib pulleys. IMO the idler pulley used on the ATI bracket is a better design than the Aster bracket because the ATI idler pulley is much larger in circumference. Because ATI idler pulley is larger it allows for larger bearings compared to the smaller idler pulley on the Aster Bracket.
Heat and over speeding a bearing reduces the lifetime of the bearing. The larger the pulley size the less rpm of the pulley and its bearings- therefore less friction and heat. Belt slippage causes friction which translates to heat. A 10 rib belt with more surface area reduces belt slippage and less friction/heat. So a wider belt combined with a larger idler pulley IMO is a plus for the ATI bracket
According to the charts in links Bob posted, the two crank pulleys for the 1998-2002 Camaro are an 8 X 8 (ribs) and an 8 X10 (ribs) pulley. So looks like the ATI engineers split the difference with an 8 inch diameter pulley in this kit rather than a 7.65 or a CBR 8.65 8 rib pulley.
Based on the location of the idler pulley and the tensioner pulley there appears to be enough room for a crank pulley larger than 8 inches. If the standoffs for the 8 rib kit bracket are a bit longer than the standoffs supplied with the original D1 J bracket then it would seem there would be an alignment issue with the crank pulley and the blower pulley. Just speculation, but the offset of the pulley's and/or standoffs for the modified J bracket might or might not allow the use of the CBR 8.65 pulley.
Another question is if there is a clearance issue between the blower pulley and the alternator pulley if an alternator other than stock is used. The over-sized case housing on the Silverado or Escalade 145 amp alternator for example. The center of the over-sized case housing locates the alt pulley more toward the driver side leaving little if any clearance between the alternator pulley and the blower pulley. That said I ordered a stock size casing 165 amp alternator with a standard size alternator pulley from Power Master and there are no clearance issues with a 3.9 blower pulley. Not sure about the standard D1 4.5 pulley, however.
If I didn't already own the Aster Bracket, I would purchase this kit in a heartbeat.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; Mar 30, 2021 at 09:50 AM.
Reason: edit content
Bob, to clarify....if I start an order process with this on your site. Does that kit include the new better 10-rib ATI bracket?
ATI PC336A-001 F-1A-94 3.70 new design impeller, new 9” volute
OP: your posts don't specify what your RWHP goals are or even what generation Camaro/Firebird.
But if it is a 4th gen Fbody and you plan to run upwards of 20 psi of boost I would get with Bob about some of the specific parts that you will need to handle that much boost.
Parts such as:
Big Red Race valve - you will need one
High quality front mounted intercooler (FMIC) and pipes (ATI has a nice kit). Check with Bob but don't think the dual 4.5 inch intercoolers and topside aluminum plenum can handle 20 PSI of boost (it will burst) unless ATI has recently upgraded it.
High quality dual fan shroud and dual puller fans such as Spal or others good brands.
XL air filter.
+ misc such as : Injectors, upgraded wire harness, fuel pumps, Hobbs switch, fuel lines, belt, pulleys, etc. The list goes on and on. Do it right the first time. Bob will steer you right.
OP: your posts don't specify what your RWHP goals are or even what generation Camaro/Firebird.
But if it is a 4th gen Fbody and you plan to run upwards of 20 psi of boost I would get with Bob about some of the specific parts that you will need to handle that much boost.
Parts such as:
Big Red Race valve - you will need one
High quality front mounted intercooler (FMIC) and pipes (ATI has a nice kit). Check with Bob but don't think the dual 4.5 inch intercoolers and topside aluminum plenum can handle 20 PSI of boost (it will burst) unless ATI has recently upgraded it.
High quality dual fan shroud and dual puller fans such as Spal or others good brands.
XL air filter.
+ misc such as : Injectors, upgraded wire harness, fuel pumps, Hobbs switch, fuel lines, belt, pulleys, etc. The list goes on and on. Do it right the first time. Bob will steer you right.
Be advised - BIG RWHP is not cheap
I hear ya. Yes, 20-21psi is the plan.
Were you the member that put the A/C condenser right behind the FMIC in the bumper? I need to stand the radiator up a little bit to make the F-1A-94 fit, according to my talks with Bob awhile ago.....thats no big deal. But I'd like to stand it up totally vertical mounted inside the factory cross-over brace like pictured below. Then relocate the condenser somwhere else, so the radiator can get 100% of the ram air cooling air from the lower air dam. I have an iron block fully forged and I'd like for it to get better cooling.
Last edited by Cant_die_LOL; Mar 31, 2021 at 12:13 AM.
Yes that is what I did to handle overheating here in KS when summer temps go north of 100 degrees requiring AC to keep from getting heat stroke and boil over when running AC.
IMO, based on my 2016 Z06, which if tracked will overheat (finally fixed in model year 2018), the GM engineers angle the radiator and the AC condenser for a couple of reasons. The first is obviously for clearance, space available, and nose height of the car. The second is my speculation and that is that the air dam directs the air up, into, and through the ac condenser more efficiently than if the ac condenser and radiator are stood straight up. Personally I think there will be less air reaching the top of the radiator for cooling if you stand it straight up compared to if you keep the stock angle of the radiator.
Keeping the radiator and ac condenser at an angle also allows more height for the ac condenser and radiator. Laying the ac condenser at a 30 degree angle adds perhaps about two more inches of surface area if the condenser is 14 inches tall and straight up compared to maybe 16 inches tall if installed at a 30 to thirty-five degree angle. There is also shrouding on the Fbody in front of the ac condenser. You will want to keep it in place as it forms an encapsulated space for most of the air forced up in the air channel and to the ac condenser.
Removing the AC condenser from the face of the radiator will gain you about two inches of forward clearance on top. Same for the bottom but you will have to modify the fan shroud in order to push the radiator forward. There is also a wire harness that restricts forward movement. Some say just move it up to the top.
Note if you don't know this. All air pushed up from the air dam on the fbody that ultimately goes to the radiator, has to pass through the ac condenser first - summer or winter. In the summer with the AC on, the differential between the temp of the air from the ac condenser as it exits through the fins on the condenser and then through the front of the radiator is much less than if there is no condenser in front of the radiator. So if ambient air is 90 degrees and your thermostat is 190 that's a 100 degree difference without a condenser. But if the air on the backside of condenser is 135 degrees then there's only a 65 degree difference in air temp to keep the coolant under 190 degrees.
There is also a scientific principle that states that the larger the difference in temperature between two objects, the faster heat will transfer from the hotter one to the cooler one. Also, if you have the room on the back side of the radiator, puller fans are more efficient that pusher fans.
So for me with temps over 100 degrees the radiator couldn't keep up with the AC on and it would boil. Keep the AC off and no problem. The 100 degree marker was the difference between running hot or not.
As a result after trying everything possible to run my AC and not overheat, I decided to see if moving the AC condenser off of the front of the radiator and into the Camaro bumper cover would help. So far it is working with out issue. No overheating and air from ac outlets in the cabin sometimes as low as 45 degrees.
But I spent 100 hundred of hours getting to where I am not now. I am busy this afternoon, but will send you some pics and suggestions if you plan to do what I did.
Some suggestions for now.
The space inside the Camaro bumper cover is limited to a 26 X 4.5 FMIC and a 16 by 31 inch high efficiency thin AC condenser with room for two Spal 11 inch pusher fans. I currently have ATI FMIC with my own custom aluminum piping. Everything tucks up over the fender splash shields. I did have to remove the windshield washer tank for clearance. Most of the shrouding is left intact with a few inches cut from the bottom for clearance for the AC condenser.
I am on my 8th version of brackets to hold the FMIC and the condenser. Each 1/2 inch of clearance is critical with many do overs calculating clearance up and down and for and aft for the fmic and condenser, pipes, and air filter (very large K&N).
I don't aluminum weld, so the side brackets you see in the pics are three piece. Next winter i plan to replace the hacked front bumper cover and at the same time weld the three pieces for the side brackets into one piece on each side.
You could buy the brackets from ATI but would have to be extended to make room for the AC condenser. But extending the FMIC forwards means you would have to splice in the same amount of piping on either side. That assumes you purchase the ATI fmic kit. Their pipe is metal and heavier than aluminum. I prefer lighter aluminum as it won't rust inside. As you can see I have had to cut and weld some of my pipes as well to get fitment right. An S bend 12 X 3 pipe works great on driver side to reach through the hole just under the fuse box.
You will have to lengthen the ac lines and convert to -8An and -6An fitting to connect to the Universal AC condenser.
Some pics.
Last edited by dlandsvZ28; Apr 1, 2021 at 08:27 PM.
Reason: edit content
Yes that is what I did to handle overheating here in KS when summer temps go north of 100 degrees requiring AC to keep from getting heat stroke and boil over when running AC.
IMO, based on my 2016 Z06, which if tracked will overheat (finally fixed in model year 2018), the GM engineers angle the radiator and the AC condenser for a couple of reasons. The first is obviously for clearance, space available, and nose height of the car. The second is my speculation and that is that the air dam directs the air up, into, and through the ac condenser more efficiently than if the ac condenser and radiator are stood straight up. Personally I think there will be less air reaching the top of the radiator for cooling if you stand it straight up compared to if you keep the stock angle of the radiator.
Keeping the radiator and ac condenser at an angle also allows more height for the ac condenser and radiator. Laying the ac condenser at a 30 degree angle adds perhaps about two more inches of surface area if the condenser is 14 inches tall and straight up compared to maybe 16 inches tall if installed at a 30 to thirty-five degree angle. There is also shrouding on the Fbody in front of the ac condenser. You will want to keep it in place as it forms an encapsulated space for most of the air forced up in the air channel and to the ac condenser.
Removing the AC condenser from the face of the radiator will gain you about two inches of forward clearance on top. Same for the bottom but you will have to modify the fan shroud in order to push the radiator forward. There is also a wire harness that restricts forward movement. Some say just move it up to the top.
Note if you don't know this. All air pushed up from the air dam on the fbody that ultimately goes to the radiator, has to pass through the ac condenser first - summer or winter. In the summer with the AC on, the differential between the temp of the air from the ac condenser as it exits through the fins on the condenser and then through the front of the radiator is much less than if there is no condenser in front of the radiator. So if ambient air is 90 degrees and your thermostat is 190 that's a 100 degree difference without a condenser. But if the air on the backside of condenser is 135 degrees then there's only a 65 degree difference in air temp to keep the coolant under 190 degrees.
There is also a scientific principle that states that the larger the difference in temperature between two objects, the faster heat will transfer from the hotter one to the cooler one. Also, if you have the room on the back side of the radiator, puller fans are more efficient that pusher fans.
So for me with temps over 100 degrees the radiator couldn't keep up with the AC on and it would boil. Keep the AC off and no problem. The 100 degree marker was the difference between running hot or not.
As a result after trying everything possible to run my AC and not overheat, I decided to see if moving the AC condenser off of the front of the radiator and into the Camaro bumper cover would help. So far it is working with out issue. No overheating and air from ac outlets in the cabin sometimes as low as 45 degrees.
But I spent 100 hundred of hours getting to where I am not now. I am busy this afternoon, but will send you some pics and suggestions if you plan to do what I did.
Some suggestions for now.
The space inside the Camaro bumper cover is limited to a 26 X 4.5 FMIC and a 16 by 31 inch high efficiency thin AC condenser with room for two Spal 11 inch pusher fans. I currently have ATI FMIC with my own custom aluminum piping. Everything tucks up over the fender splash shields. I did have to remove the windshield washer tank for clearance. Most of the shrouding is left intact with a few inches cut from the bottom for clearance for the AC condenser.
I am on my 8th version of brackets to hold the FMIC and the condenser. Each 1/2 inch of clearance is critical with many do overs calculating clearance up and down and for and aft for the fmic and condenser, pipes, and air filter (very large K&N).
I don't aluminum weld, so the side brackets you see in the pics are three piece. Next winter i plan to replace the hacked front bumper cover and at the same time weld the three pieces for the side brackets into one piece on each side.
You could buy the brackets from ATI but would have to be extended to make room for the AC condenser. But extending the FMIC forwards means you would have to splice in the same amount of piping on either side. That assumes you purchase the ATI fmic kit. Their pipe is metal and heavier than aluminum. I prefer lighter aluminum as it won't rust inside. As you can see I have had to cut and weld some of my pipes as well to get fitment right. An S bend 12 X 3 pipe works great on driver side to reach through the hole just under the fuse box.
You will have to lengthen the ac lines and convert to -8An and -6An fitting to connect to the Universal AC condenser.
Some pics.
Great, thanks for the info. I guess since this is working out well for you and your AC temps are nice and cold coming out of the vents, the hot air coming off the FMIC going directly into the AC condenser is not hot enough to affect the efficiency of the condenser. I need the upgraded 1300 Race FMIC that Brute Speed offers. Not sure of its dimensions, I will check.
But doing this is a must, I know the set up will overheat. It will overheat now on a 95*F day if I'm in slow or stop and go traffic with the AC ON. Soo as I move the temps drop from 225*F down to 195*F in a matter of 1 minute. Slowing down or sitting in traffic kills it just as fast.
A custom AC shop in my town told me to use two smaller AC condensers connected in series and it will be easier to find a space for it. They said to install the Supercharger kit first, then bring it over to them without my AC condenser in the car and they will get it done. They showed me a couple cars with two smaller condensers in series that looked pretty cool. One was a large old 1960's car with a lot of room though.
Maybe I can just tell them to do for me what you did to your car.
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