Really dumb question on crank pinning for running a blower.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
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From: South Hill, Wa
Really dumb question on crank pinning for running a blower. I am now running a forged aftermarket crank that has the obvious keyway for the timing set but also a keyway cut for a balancer.
The keyway for the balancer appears to use common old school chevy 3/16x 3/4 long woodruff key.
I am running an Innovators West balancer and hub that is cut for 3/16s keys.
Would this woodruff key be strong enough for spinning a crank driven blower?
If anyone is wondering it's for a custom LSA supercharger application that is driven off of an 8 rib belt from the main accessory belt and not a dedicated blower drive belt if that even matters.
I also have a standard horizontal crank pinning kit as well that uses the 3/4 inch long pieces of drill rod that you jam into a hole you drill from the front.
I am a big believer in keeping **** simple and I'd rather not swiss cheese this crank snout if I don't need to.
The keyway for the balancer appears to use common old school chevy 3/16x 3/4 long woodruff key.
I am running an Innovators West balancer and hub that is cut for 3/16s keys.
Would this woodruff key be strong enough for spinning a crank driven blower?
If anyone is wondering it's for a custom LSA supercharger application that is driven off of an 8 rib belt from the main accessory belt and not a dedicated blower drive belt if that even matters.
I also have a standard horizontal crank pinning kit as well that uses the 3/4 inch long pieces of drill rod that you jam into a hole you drill from the front.
I am a big believer in keeping **** simple and I'd rather not swiss cheese this crank snout if I don't need to.
Last edited by Mr. Black; Jul 22, 2022 at 09:56 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
Well ****. Did not go as planned. Even with careful measurements I still managed to crack the hub.
A quick google search has showed me that I'm not the first one to do this and I probably won't be the last.
Sucks though as it will be a major setback for my fictitious deadline.
A quick google search has showed me that I'm not the first one to do this and I probably won't be the last.
Sucks though as it will be a major setback for my fictitious deadline.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
Unfortunately the keyway in the crank is not cut all the way out to the tip of the snout. It's cut a half moon only under the back half of where the balancer would land.
So you have to aim this thing and hope for the best on getting it aligned. Even though I measured twice I think it was a little fat and had to have been a little tall.
At this point I am hoping that IW sells a hub with no keyway and just let me drill and pin it old new school.
So you have to aim this thing and hope for the best on getting it aligned. Even though I measured twice I think it was a little fat and had to have been a little tall.
At this point I am hoping that IW sells a hub with no keyway and just let me drill and pin it old new school.
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Unfortunately the keyway in the crank is not cut all the way out to the tip of the snout. It's cut a half moon only under the back half of where the balancer would land.
So you have to aim this thing and hope for the best on getting it aligned. Even though I measured twice I think it was a little fat and had to have been a little tall.
At this point I am hoping that IW sells a hub with no keyway and just let me drill and pin it old new school.
So you have to aim this thing and hope for the best on getting it aligned. Even though I measured twice I think it was a little fat and had to have been a little tall.
At this point I am hoping that IW sells a hub with no keyway and just let me drill and pin it old new school.
Andrew
You could just knock the outer crank key out and pin as usual. I’m assuming there are two keys in the crank. One at the rear for the timing gear and one up front for the balancer.
Is that balancer hub aluminum?
Is that balancer hub aluminum?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
I have an ATI balancer with a separate hub. Stick the hub in the oven at 300 degrees for an hour and the hub will slide on the crank without having to use an installation tool. You'll have to work fast, but it will make aligning the key very easy. I have a Molnar crank with a key as well.
Andrew
Andrew
I only had the whole thing in the oven at 240 and only for a half hour. Maybe a little impatient.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
I'll see what IW recommends on Monday. I'm just hoping they don't make me send it in as that could take forever. I don't want to get in a situation where it's faster to buy a new balancer.
The hub is steel but it is remarkably thin where they cut the keyway slot in it (maybe .125") and their slot is full length which IMO makes it even weaker. Especially being a square keyway.
I will keep that in mind. Did you literally put the hub on by itself? Not sure if this will be possible with the innovators west as their hub is a pretty serious interference fit between the body and the hub. I'll see what they say on Monday.
I only had the whole thing in the oven at 240 and only for a half hour. Maybe a little impatient.
I only had the whole thing in the oven at 240 and only for a half hour. Maybe a little impatient.
Andrew
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
Talked to Innovators West and got some ideas. They of course said they could repair my balancer but it would have to be sent in. Turnaround time was going to be 2 to 3 weeks factoring in shipping. That was not going to work and I can't use overnight or might as well buy a new balancer haha.
Long story longer, I did end up buying another balancer which Summit somehow got to me overnight even though I selected free shipping. I love @Summitracing Shipped off my damaged unit to IW slow boat for repairs and inspection. It will be sold off once returned unless they say it's going to cost 500 bucks to fix it lol. At that point they can keep it.
IW did say that using the small block chevy woodruff key would be totally fine for my application and power level to key the balancer onto the crank for supercharger drive.
I took my time and carefully file fit the woodruff key so that I know for a fact it has proper fit and clearance. I heated the balancer up at 270F for an hour and I even iced the crank snout for a half hour. Son of a bitch still wasn't even close to thinking about sliding on. Kinda makes me wonder if the eagle forged crank snout may be on the large side. It fought me the whole way on. It never made any scary noises or pops nor did it do the really really hard and then really really easy like last time. Very nerve racking! but it's on there.
Long story longer, I did end up buying another balancer which Summit somehow got to me overnight even though I selected free shipping. I love @Summitracing Shipped off my damaged unit to IW slow boat for repairs and inspection. It will be sold off once returned unless they say it's going to cost 500 bucks to fix it lol. At that point they can keep it.
IW did say that using the small block chevy woodruff key would be totally fine for my application and power level to key the balancer onto the crank for supercharger drive.
I took my time and carefully file fit the woodruff key so that I know for a fact it has proper fit and clearance. I heated the balancer up at 270F for an hour and I even iced the crank snout for a half hour. Son of a bitch still wasn't even close to thinking about sliding on. Kinda makes me wonder if the eagle forged crank snout may be on the large side. It fought me the whole way on. It never made any scary noises or pops nor did it do the really really hard and then really really easy like last time. Very nerve racking! but it's on there.
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@Mr. Black,
Happy to hear we were able to get you a balancer the next day with our over $99 free ground shipping
Happy to hear we were able to get you a balancer the next day with our over $99 free ground shipping
There is a certain interference fit between hub and balancer, if non stock stuff, you have to measure them. ATI will hone their balancers if given the crank meas., but they have to be accurate. I would ck your meas. before going any further.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
It's on now and torqued. I'm comfortable with the installation this time and that the key is properly installed.
Also to avoid any confusion I may have created the new replacement balancer / damper is another IW part number 843 I got from Summit.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
In case anyone gives a rats *** this mistake of mine ended up costing 135 dollars with shipping both ways to fix or replace the cracked hub. The hub itself was 90 dollars out of the 135.
Got it back and it's good as new. Took not quite 3 weeks total.
Got it back and it's good as new. Took not quite 3 weeks total.
