Options on how to get more power 🤔
Options on how to get more power 🤔 So just got the car back from tuning and hit 643 on 17 psi but they settled on 600 at 15 psi, 5.3 sloppy stage 2 cam, 799 heads, 78/75 vs turbo, aem water meth 50/50 1000cc nozzle, in at 3 psi full at 8, 94 octane 80lb injectors, walbro 450. So when I want to bump up to say 7-800 what's next? Would adding another meth nozzle benefit?
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2020
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First off , I'd say those are good # for pump gas . I think you'll find that many go to e85 past that power level ( not all , but many ) why did they back off on the tune ? High IAT ? KR ? That turbo has the 1.25 housing? The billet version is probably worth a bit extra at higher boost levels >15 . 10 blade turbine or 9 ? 9 has to reduce BP a bit. Simple answer is turn up the boost , if high IAT or KR then another W/M nozzle may help. Other options are, improving intake - like ls6 over ls1 , or tbss/nnbs over stock early truck . More or different cam , ported or aftermarket heads . Pump and injectors should be able to do in the lower 700s with the pump running out first. Someone here should have first hand experience with this. Are you chasing an et ? Converter , gears , tires and chassis all perfect?
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Yeah, more details for sure. I mean, from my perspective, if you have access to E at a pump, I'd go with a second pump, content sensor, and see where timing on E gets you. You'll probably run out of injectors next. Just depends on several factors, including how far you want to go.
Is this on a stock ECM?
Is this on a stock ECM?
I think your numbers are consistent if your sig says 355 with the motor and 600 at the wheels at 15psi that's about double. 70hp gain with an additional 2psi at the wheels?
Depending on which version of the 78/75 you have the gen 1, 2.5 or the next gen. Gen 1 had 3" vband outlet, 2.5 and next gen have larger 4" vband I believe especially on the 1.25 exhaust housings. This means you might have issues getting everything back together depending on your setup as the units themselves are also larger than the gen 1 OG stuff. If you have a billet wheel 78/75 those start to shine in the 15+psi range which it sounds like you do getting 35rwhp per PSI at 17psi. I would push the turbo harder 20+ psi and increase the meth % and you should get there. I doubt the 450 will be out of steam at 700-800whp on pump 94 but it will be close. The added meth % will act like additional fuel (helping the pump), cooler and octane increase/knock protection. Just got to be careful as 100% is highly flammable and dangerous and burns with a invisible flame. My walbro 450 on 93 has been to 650rwhp no issues and I also spray 30% meth.
GMCgreg is pretty much spot on, a better intake, light/mild port work to the stock heads and a custom cam would net you additional power at your current boost and more as boost increases. So you would need less boost to reach your target power goal but turning it up is much easier and cheaper.
Depending on which version of the 78/75 you have the gen 1, 2.5 or the next gen. Gen 1 had 3" vband outlet, 2.5 and next gen have larger 4" vband I believe especially on the 1.25 exhaust housings. This means you might have issues getting everything back together depending on your setup as the units themselves are also larger than the gen 1 OG stuff. If you have a billet wheel 78/75 those start to shine in the 15+psi range which it sounds like you do getting 35rwhp per PSI at 17psi. I would push the turbo harder 20+ psi and increase the meth % and you should get there. I doubt the 450 will be out of steam at 700-800whp on pump 94 but it will be close. The added meth % will act like additional fuel (helping the pump), cooler and octane increase/knock protection. Just got to be careful as 100% is highly flammable and dangerous and burns with a invisible flame. My walbro 450 on 93 has been to 650rwhp no issues and I also spray 30% meth.
GMCgreg is pretty much spot on, a better intake, light/mild port work to the stock heads and a custom cam would net you additional power at your current boost and more as boost increases. So you would need less boost to reach your target power goal but turning it up is much easier and cheaper.
I squeezed 700whp out of my old Turbonetics 7875 at 14lbs. on the stock fuel system with twin 255's on pump gas only, no meth and that dyno was conservative from what I was told.
If you plan on going over 700whp, a fuel system upgrade is highly recommended, bigger lines, bigger pump(s), bigger injectors and boost referenced fuel pressure regulator.
Not sure what VS turbo you have but the new billet Gen 2.5 is pretty stout and would probably get you to 800whp.
Cam and ported heads always help too, a cutout of some kind is also highly recommended.
If you plan on going over 700whp, a fuel system upgrade is highly recommended, bigger lines, bigger pump(s), bigger injectors and boost referenced fuel pressure regulator.
Not sure what VS turbo you have but the new billet Gen 2.5 is pretty stout and would probably get you to 800whp.
Cam and ported heads always help too, a cutout of some kind is also highly recommended.
The turbo is gen 2 cast .96, 3in exhaust. tuner said I am pretty much tapped without going race fuel or adding more meth percentage, would running a second 500cc nozzle with the 1000cc nozzle net me anymore benefits
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I think let'sturbosomething is running something like that with the smaller nozzle pre turbo . IIRC he's running over 20lbs but on 90 octane (alaska) 5.3 , bigger cam , and bigger turbo - possibly the same turbine and housing. I think judging by his times he's in the low to mid 600whp range - maybe he will chime in on what's limiting his combo. If the tuner is suggesting more W/M then it must be seeing some KR and/or the plugs are saying it won't take more timing. No harm in trying more W/M , boost and possibly less timing to keep it safe - only gonna hurt the wallet if you're paying for dyno and tuning time. Also think it was said already that the billet versions really shine over 15psi compared to the cast
There's always more room with better fuel. Meth injection is just like race gas. 11* is about 10* shy of where it would want to be with great fuel at your current boost level. You would likely be able to pick up a solid 75+ crank HP if you had the octane to run 22-24* timing at your current boost.
That *could* be done with more methanol. But there's always many other factors to consider.
1.) The amount of water meth you are spraying now is TINY. It is basically just pulling a tiny bit of heat from your CC. If you wanted to get serious you need to add race fuel, E85, or switch to 100% meth injection and replace up to 1/3rd of your current fueling with 100% methanol from your AUX injection kit. Adding another 500cc nozzle is like pissing into a hurricane.... its not going to do much. Most of the good meth inj pumps will pump about 40-45gph wide open at 100psi. you need all of that flow and more to replace 1/3rd of your total fuel with meth. Most pumps can't hang with the amount of meth needed. So you basically just jet it to max out your pump and adjust your tune from there.
2.) Distribution becomes an issue when spraying large amounts at a single point pre TB. So you may need to spray even more METH to ensure ALL cylinders get enough to keep you away from detonation. This will over fuel some cylinders. Basically if you want it done "right" you need to run direct port meth injection at each cylinder.
3.) By the time you iron all that out its generally cheaper and easier to just switch to E50-E85, or splash in some race gas at the track.
That *could* be done with more methanol. But there's always many other factors to consider.
1.) The amount of water meth you are spraying now is TINY. It is basically just pulling a tiny bit of heat from your CC. If you wanted to get serious you need to add race fuel, E85, or switch to 100% meth injection and replace up to 1/3rd of your current fueling with 100% methanol from your AUX injection kit. Adding another 500cc nozzle is like pissing into a hurricane.... its not going to do much. Most of the good meth inj pumps will pump about 40-45gph wide open at 100psi. you need all of that flow and more to replace 1/3rd of your total fuel with meth. Most pumps can't hang with the amount of meth needed. So you basically just jet it to max out your pump and adjust your tune from there.
2.) Distribution becomes an issue when spraying large amounts at a single point pre TB. So you may need to spray even more METH to ensure ALL cylinders get enough to keep you away from detonation. This will over fuel some cylinders. Basically if you want it done "right" you need to run direct port meth injection at each cylinder.
3.) By the time you iron all that out its generally cheaper and easier to just switch to E50-E85, or splash in some race gas at the track.
There's always more room with better fuel. Meth injection is just like race gas. 11* is about 10* shy of where it would want to be with great fuel at your current boost level. You would likely be able to pick up a solid 75+ crank HP if you had the octane to run 22-24* timing at your current boost.
That *could* be done with more methanol. But there's always many other factors to consider.
1.) The amount of water meth you are spraying now is TINY. It is basically just pulling a tiny bit of heat from your CC. If you wanted to get serious you need to add race fuel, E85, or switch to 100% meth injection and replace up to 1/3rd of your current fueling with 100% methanol from your AUX injection kit. Adding another 500cc nozzle is like pissing into a hurricane.... its not going to do much. Most of the good meth inj pumps will pump about 40-45gph wide open at 100psi. you need all of that flow and more to replace 1/3rd of your total fuel with meth. Most pumps can't hang with the amount of meth needed. So you basically just jet it to max out your pump and adjust your tune from there.
2.) Distribution becomes an issue when spraying large amounts at a single point pre TB. So you may need to spray even more METH to ensure ALL cylinders get enough to keep you away from detonation. This will over fuel some cylinders. Basically if you want it done "right" you need to run direct port meth injection at each cylinder.
3.) By the time you iron all that out its generally cheaper and easier to just switch to E50-E85, or splash in some race gas at the track.
That *could* be done with more methanol. But there's always many other factors to consider.
1.) The amount of water meth you are spraying now is TINY. It is basically just pulling a tiny bit of heat from your CC. If you wanted to get serious you need to add race fuel, E85, or switch to 100% meth injection and replace up to 1/3rd of your current fueling with 100% methanol from your AUX injection kit. Adding another 500cc nozzle is like pissing into a hurricane.... its not going to do much. Most of the good meth inj pumps will pump about 40-45gph wide open at 100psi. you need all of that flow and more to replace 1/3rd of your total fuel with meth. Most pumps can't hang with the amount of meth needed. So you basically just jet it to max out your pump and adjust your tune from there.
2.) Distribution becomes an issue when spraying large amounts at a single point pre TB. So you may need to spray even more METH to ensure ALL cylinders get enough to keep you away from detonation. This will over fuel some cylinders. Basically if you want it done "right" you need to run direct port meth injection at each cylinder.
3.) By the time you iron all that out its generally cheaper and easier to just switch to E50-E85, or splash in some race gas at the track.
Yeah it's really looking like when it's time for more to just go e85 and get a barrel brought up i guess .
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 222
Likes: 46
From: Dayton, OH
The jump to E85 is not a small one. You need 30% more fuel just to support the power level you are at now.
The mistake most people make is to convert to flex but not upsize the fuel system. Then when they upgrade their engine or power adder, they have to rebuy some of the same parts.
When I drove to Corvettes at Carlisle I burned 93 to make refueling easier. I forgot how much it smelled so once I was there I went back to E85. I was amazed at how much more power it had on E.
The mistake most people make is to convert to flex but not upsize the fuel system. Then when they upgrade their engine or power adder, they have to rebuy some of the same parts.
When I drove to Corvettes at Carlisle I burned 93 to make refueling easier. I forgot how much it smelled so once I was there I went back to E85. I was amazed at how much more power it had on E.
Last edited by SteveJewels; Nov 13, 2022 at 08:33 AM.
is this on a mustang dyno or something? my old c5 did 663rwhp on 10 psi with a d1sc procharger stealing from the crank. granted it was a 5.7, but.....sounds like the turbine is choking it.