Pump gas guys beware... Fuel rules have changed.
Great video but least of our worries with this administration. I live in Massachusetts and our recently elected LGBTQ governor (I only say that because the news keep making it a point to point it out) has nominated the first ever climate chief to wage war on fossil fuels.
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Wichita, KS
Not huge for most unmodified cars. But for the pump gas turbo guys… it could cost a motor. Even the base fuel used to make E85 has been downgraded with no real regulation. Criminal activity if it destroys someone’s motor. Esp. since they didn’t tell the public… pretty scary stuff!
Not huge for most unmodified cars. But for the pump gas turbo guys… it could cost a motor. Even the base fuel used to make E85 has been downgraded with no real regulation. Criminal activity if it destroys someone’s motor. Esp. since they didn’t tell the public… pretty scary stuff!
Maybe it's my comprehension, but their back and forth sure polluted the message and I'm not sure I totally understood it.
Can someone more knowledgeable than me confirm that their point was this: "Different regions of the US had gas recipe restrictions lifted for Covid, and pump gas in many regions had much more Ethanol than usual for that season's recipe, because it diluted the real gas so gas companies could spread it thinner and therefore make more gasoline available to everyone (which also made them more money)."
...is that what they are saying?
So that means if you tuned for 93 with, say, 8% ethanol, and then it changed to 93 with 18% ethanol, then your car would run "leaner" and if you didn't have KR to catch it then it could damage the engine? I may have that backwards but would like to understand it if someone feels like explaining it like a real person and not like these drama queen youtubers.
AAA Fuel Quality Report: https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/f...ull-Report.pdf
U.S. Energy Information Administration Article: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=54839
2022 EPA Fuel Waivers: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/fuel-waivers#2022
U.S. Department of Energy E15 definition: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e15.html
U.S. Department of Energy Flex Fuel Information: https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/flexible_fuel.html
Last edited by mk3cn4; Jan 12, 2023 at 08:14 PM.
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From a legal point, I would think they have to post the accurate % content. A station around me that sells E85 just says 50-85 % eth, lol. I test it. The diff Holley systems I have used with a flex fuel sensor have always read 8% eth, not the 10% shown on the pumps, never actually tested it though.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
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From: Wichita, KS
Def. long winded! lol
They have links to the documents on the youtube page. Basically says that in the time of the Covid crisis they could freely blend what ever the hell they wanted in the fuel due to shortages. Yet not tell the public what blends/additives they did or didn't use.
They have links to the documents on the youtube page. Basically says that in the time of the Covid crisis they could freely blend what ever the hell they wanted in the fuel due to shortages. Yet not tell the public what blends/additives they did or didn't use.
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/what...l-in-pump-gas/
This at least puts it in words so you don’t have to listen to those goombah’s.
If running a Holley or other wideband system it should compensate nicely on its own. We are only talking a few percent here.
Factory ecu guys like me prob ought to tweak the fueling.
Although I run E85, so I don’t worry about it. I do check my fuel.
FWIW, ran my best ET last summer in my C5 which would have been on this new fuel. It’s properly tuned, so I don’t see an issue with the power end of things.
Ron
This at least puts it in words so you don’t have to listen to those goombah’s.
If running a Holley or other wideband system it should compensate nicely on its own. We are only talking a few percent here.
Factory ecu guys like me prob ought to tweak the fueling.
Although I run E85, so I don’t worry about it. I do check my fuel.
FWIW, ran my best ET last summer in my C5 which would have been on this new fuel. It’s properly tuned, so I don’t see an issue with the power end of things.
Ron
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2011
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From: Wichita, KS
Def. has more to do with people running pump gas tunes on the edge. Very few cars have an ethanol sensor and without it there's only so much closed loop correction can handle. Also older vehicles aren't designed to run on over 10% ethanol either. The fuel system material isn't compatible. No telling how high the percentages went as they aren't regulated. Not to mention there is money to be made running higher ethanol blends since its cheaper. Also can be region/gas station specific as there was no one policing this at all. Some areas of the country may have been affected very little... Others a lot. My only real gripe is that the public wasn't told. Nothing on the news, no notifications on pumps etc.
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Thanks for bringing this to our attention, agreed that vid is about 30 min longer than needed. This could easily explain my tune problem while on the power tour last June . Up here in Canada I usually run 91 octane 0% E. Readily available. For the tour I bought a tank of " up to 10% E " which was probably less , tweaked the tune a bit and thought I'd be good , get down to Tennessee and it's going very lean , was already cruising a little lean on purpose. Had to break out the laptop , could have been bad. Definitely looking into a flex fuel sensor for any future trips stateside. What's everyone using for a sensor ?
I "was" tuning a turbo on 87 before the track closed for the season. Paused that for the winter, been using 93 with somewhat conservative tune for my DD since it's been relatively cheap and wanted peace of mind.
But it's really enforcing the point others were making to me that riding on the edge of an 87 turbo tune could be a big mistake for this exact reason. If I hit a gas station like they describe with hugely diluted 87 fuel, it could very easily kill my engine apparently if I understand this correctly.
Not that it matters during the winter anyway LOL... even with a conservative tune I have almost zero opportunity to go WOT here in Pennsylvania with the cold hard all-season tires on gritty road surface. I can't do WOT even on a high roll right now without spinning. I barely go into PE at all LOL
Last edited by mk3cn4; Jan 14, 2023 at 10:21 AM.
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Wichita, KS
Used the $26 shipped cheapy china sensor. Worked well for 3-4 years I had the car. Amazon has the ACDELCO 13507128 for $53.
I'll say running them can be tricky. Can't run them on return and they are a restriction on the supply unless you parallel them in. I used mine inline with the factory pump to fill a surge tank. Then used big pumps off the surge. Worked really well.
I'll say running them can be tricky. Can't run them on return and they are a restriction on the supply unless you parallel them in. I used mine inline with the factory pump to fill a surge tank. Then used big pumps off the surge. Worked really well.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2020
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Likes: 209
Spoiler!
Used the $26 shipped cheapy china sensor. Worked well for 3-4 years I had the car. Amazon has the ACDELCO 13507128 for $53.
I'll say running them can be tricky. Can't run them on return and they are a restriction on the supply unless you parallel them in. I used mine inline with the factory pump to fill a surge tank. Then used big pumps off the surge. Worked really well.
I'll say running them can be tricky. Can't run them on return and they are a restriction on the supply unless you parallel them in. I used mine inline with the factory pump to fill a surge tank. Then used big pumps off the surge. Worked really well.