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as an engineer you should know better than anyone how unfair and disingenuous calling it 'just a viscous coupler' is.
ive had cheap converters ($200), mid level ($1800), and many in between and in my experience the extra spent on a converter has a much larger day-to-day impact on a hot rod than camshafts, turbos, compression ratios, or just about anything else besides tires.
this hobby isnt for everyone though, and some would rather have pretty wheels or fancy paint. thats what makes the hobby interesting.
LOL, but it IS! I tend to agree about converter importance, probably 2nd only to the tune/tuner.
Sorry, kind of off topic but you know what would be cool, would be a torque converter comparison test.
One car, one combination and a series of converters looking at rated stall vs actual stall, ET and MPH 1/8 and 1/4 mile, coupling capability (shift drop), heat generation, top end slip and dyno pulls for fun.
Give the torque converter companies accurate data and see who does it better.
If we could just get all the converter manufacturers to agree on commonality that'd be a great start. For example, a 3600 stall could mean that it "allows rev to 3600 on footbrake at 500hp".
I've had 6 different converters of varying degrees of stall over the last 20 years of owning fbodies (6th fbody now), and I'd always have to Google for others who list what they "really" stall at X power level etc. and scale accordingly and hope I guessed right.
I'm talking about off the shelf converters under $1k.
My worst surprise was going from an Edge 3200 to a Summit Racing 3200, the Edge 3200 IRL allowed way higher revving and allowed great street launches deep in the powerband, but the Summit 3200 would not even break the tires loose when nailed from a dead stop sometimes. The Summit "3200" would only let me tach it to 2800 MAX on footbrake pushing it hard as I could, and drove like stock where an 800rpm idle was enough to putt putt around parking lots idling. Not true with the Edge or my new Yank, they were loose down low and only moved with throttle. Unexplainably the Summit seemed to still give the same typical 5 tenths benefit at the track for me, but I have totally stock suspension/shocks/everything and couldn't really gain as much as you guys with your sub-1.5 sixties LOL.
I agree with what ****** is sorta implying... We need some common standardized way of measuring this better than "3200 stall".
If we could just get all the converter manufacturers to agree on commonality that'd be a great start. For example, a 3600 stall could mean that it "allows rev to 3600 on footbrake at 500hp".
I've had 6 different converters of varying degrees of stall over the last 20 years of owning fbodies (6th fbody now), and I'd always have to Google for others who list what they "really" stall at X power level etc. and scale accordingly and hope I guessed right.
I'm talking about off the shelf converters under $1k.
My worst surprise was going from an Edge 3200 to a Summit Racing 3200, the Edge 3200 IRL allowed way higher revving and allowed great street launches deep in the powerband, but the Summit 3200 would not even break the tires loose when nailed from a dead stop sometimes. The Summit "3200" would only let me tach it to 2800 MAX on footbrake pushing it hard as I could, and drove like stock where an 800rpm idle was enough to putt putt around parking lots idling. Not true with the Edge or my new Yank, they were loose down low and only moved with throttle. Unexplainably the Summit seemed to still give the same typical 5 tenths benefit at the track for me, but I have totally stock suspension/shocks/everything and couldn't really gain as much as you guys with your sub-1.5 sixties LOL.
I agree with what ****** is sorta implying... We need some common standardized way of measuring this better than "3200 stall".
Im so confused by this. You say the Edge was much looser and could launch harder,etc.; but at low speed low throttle the Summit drove better....but also ET'd the same. Isn't that a good thing?
rated stall as listed on a catalog page is the worst way to choose a converter other than paint color. ill put a catalog "2800 stall' in my 4000 lb 2.73 geared wagon with a 5.3 and twin gt3582s and guarantee it wont see within 1000rpm of that rating.
i hate calling companies to waste their time and mine asking questions as much as the rest of us, but converters its gotta be built to your combo or you need a cookie cutter combo and some luck to get something good.
The test would focus on reaching out to the different companies and providing them with any and all detail on the vehicle and intended use and let them build what they think will work best, everyone would get one restall attempt since that seems to be common practice for many of them.
I would want to give them the opportunity to put their best foot forward so price would be a factor, bang for your buck as it were.
Then run the car through the tests mentioned earlier and collate the data.
I agree, the rated stall is not the way to select a converter, from my own experience I had a Redneck Converters 3,500 stall behind an old school SBC 350, and it would stall around 3,200.
Put that same converter behind a solid roller BBC 454 and it would flash over 4,500 rpm easily, it was unexpected but ended up being pretty fast and a ton of fun too lol.
Im so confused by this. You say the Edge was much looser and could launch harder,etc.; but at low speed low throttle the Summit drove better....but also ET'd the same. Isn't that a good thing?
Yes it seems like it would be a good thing, and agreed that it "is" in my case I guess, BUT ONLY because I was basically all stock with only drag radials. In reality I was able to just stab the Summit off the line without spinning versus the Edge needing to be feathered to get apparently the SAME launch without spinning, those scenarios in MY case happened to net the same ET because I'm so close to stock.
BUT, someone with good suspension and sticky tires would certainly be able to push the Edge further greatly outperforming the Summit IMO, and both were 3200 stalls.
For FUN Factor its not a good thing away from the track. IRL with the Edge I could floor it on a roll and it'd really kick up to the powerband and throw the car sideways, I know the Edge outperformed the Summit in those cases as the summit woudn't let the engine rev high enough to hit that power level, just kinda bogged.
And let's face it, it's pretty dang cool to just GOOSE IT for a second rolling at 5mphs and it spin the tires... no chance of that with the summit one. gives the illusion of having way more power than you do LOL
Yea sorry it does sound like I contradicted myself, but the edge just felt like the car had so much more power even though I didn't have the traction at the track to take advantage of it in my case. The two "3200" stall converters were miles apart in feel and function.
My problem now is that I overcompensated the other way this time, I went with a Yank PT4000 but then went turbo not long afterwards. Didn't plan ahead. My poor car sounds like a golf cart going down the track. But it seems to be doing OK. Heck maybe I'll throw that summit one back in now :-)
I wish I could tell you where this converter is stalling but I am not good at tuning;-) Lol.
For catchup, my 2.0 was on the street. I’ve since been trying a lot more footbraking and I can get positive boost, but I haven’t draggyed since trying some of these. I suspect it will improve yet on the street. More to follow.
And let's face it, it's pretty dang cool to just GOOSE IT for a second rolling at 5mphs and it spin the tires... no chance of that with the summit one. gives the illusion of having way more power than you do LOL
Are you saying the pt4000 was too loose or too tight?
When you goose it what’s the rpm flash to?
The PT4000 was great for my cammed LQ4, but I didn't predict jumping to aTurbo so quickly.
Now with the turbo and 100 extra horsepower I believe I'm leaving a lot on the table with the slip of this 4000 Yank because I think it's too loose and I'm pushing through too much. Sounds like a golfcart going down the track with shifts almost undetectable. I expect I could have chosen better (tighter) with a turbo car. It's not so bad it's worth changing but it would not have been my first choice knowing the power numbers I would end up with, trapping over 120.
Sorry I don't remember the numbers of the flash offhand, but it was high enough to get deep into the powerband.
And let's face it, it's pretty dang cool to just GOOSE IT for a second rolling at 5mphs and it spin the tires... no chance of that with the summit one. gives the illusion of having way more power than you do LOL
Pretty cool to do that at 70+ mph too 🍻
Yea going to a turbo puts you in a totally different category. I'm literally afraid to do WOT in most places especially without my drag radials. I'll be going to normal tires as soon as first sub-32 degree day gets forecast here (near Pittsburgh). I can't even tune it or anything with the cheap tires LOL but my plan is to drive mine all winter on non-snow days of course :-) Then you don't even really have to goose it to go sideways, it's almost accidental.
get some logs. all these qualitative descriptions wont allow anyone to help you.
i thought this truck was awd? ive had an awd rcsb for a long time with the cheapest tires on amazon and rarely had traction issues at 16 psi
I wasn't giving you ****, it's just your thread got hijacked into a more race car build when clearly you mentioned in your first posts some of the details lol.
Been following the "stay tuned" youtube channel at all? They did a 4l60 AWD S10 with the 3.8/4/1 based buick V6 making a poor mans syclone. They already munched the 4l60 with the v6... lol
Well, it took me a while but I thought I would provide an update to the thread. I just finished installing the Cam Motion Titan 2 cam. 212/220 .553/.553. The dyno was really unexpected!
It gained almost 90 peak from the previous with as much as 200 in the middle of the range. It was as high as 592 but turned it down because it pickup up some more boost on the street. Faster spool too. Still 10 psi. E85.
Well, it took me a while but I thought I would provide an update to the thread. I just finished installing the Cam Motion Titan 2 cam. 212/220 .553/.553. The dyno was really unexpected!
It gained almost 90 peak from the previous with as much as 200 in the middle of the range. It was as high as 592 but turned it down because it pickup up some more boost on the street. Faster spool too. Still 10 psi. E85.
fwiw, my son has the same truck, it does have power everything and dual climate control, on race stars and no one in it, it weighed 4800lbs at certified scales.
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