That's the plan but the nearest station is 1.5 hours away.
The only option really is to buy/fill a drum of E to keep in the garage and run pump gas most of the time, but we'll see.
I'm halfway tempted to buy an empty drum and go fill it up since my buddy has a tilt deck trailer.
The only question is how good is the E content but as long as it's close to 85 it should be pretty good right?

 

That's why setting it up for Flex fuel is the best idea, it will automatically adjust and limit everything when setup properly especially in a Haltech where it will control spark, fuel, and boost. Technically once you get up around 50%-60% Ethanol it's going to have most of the benefit of running it.

 

That's what I'll do right out of the gate then.
I just talked to a buddy of mine who's been buying E from that same station and he said its never tested below 70% and lately has been at or above 80% which is great news.
The price right now is $4.89 a gallon which is higher than I'd like but far cheaper than Trick 101 race gas at $16.49 a gallon at a pump in Auburn.
How good is the self-learn tuning feature or will I still need a dyno tune for both pump and E?

 

The "self learning" is enough to get it up and running in most cases but it will definitely need to actually be tuned properly. I hate to even call it self learning because it's really not much more than just trimming fuel, you still need to actually tune it and set everything up properly. I will say that it's critical that you have an experienced Haltech tuner be tuning this, the system is infinitely configurable and absolutely needs somebody tuning it that knows the system in and out.

 

I knew it sounded too good to be true lol.
I'd like to learn enough to make small changes (fuel, timing) at the track but that's about it, my tuner will do the heavy lifting for sure.
He's going to call me later today or tomorrow morning to discuss next steps.
I've watched a few videos and the system seems pretty easy to install, finding all the wires for the lights and maybe having to do something custom on the VSS seems like it will be the hardest part, and drilling a big hole in the firewall lol.
When it comes to dyno tuning for flex fuel, what is the best plan?
Show up with a little 91 in the tank, tune it, drain and fill with E and repeat?
Is there a feature on the Haltech where I could turn the pumps on to drain the tank quickly?

 

Yeah sounds like a flex setup would be good to have.

As an aside I've kinda heard some things about VP C85, maybe hard on rubber hoses or something, maybe @NicD would know? Just asking in case you were to buy pails of it.

I'd say if you were to go fill up some cans or jugs it would be good for a couple of months as long as they are sealed.

So for the BCM if that controls the windows, lights, would it just need power and ground wired up? I have never done this conversation years ago Speed Inc. did it for me on my old Formula which ran BS3.

 

I don't think C85 is any harder on rubber hoses than normal E85, it just has a very small percent of nitro in it.

 

I tell everybody to show up on a 1/4 tank of pump gas to tune on that first, then we just fill the rest of the tank with E85 to get ethanol content up to at least E65. Normally we don't need to drain anything out to do this since I'm not trying to hit exactly E85 unless it's a big power build and we need to verify a marginal fuel system. And yes you can just turn on the fuel pump output to test if you want to crack a line and drain it fully but normally not necessary.

 

@NicD are you going to be at the shop on Tuesday? I’ll be in town and would be cool to come visit again.

sorry for the interruption in your thread…

 

I spoke to my tuner yesterday for a bit and he confirmed the BCM operation and just like you said, just need to supply power and maybe ground to keep power functions which is great.
He also indicated that E85 in a sealed drum was good for quite a while around here, up to a year (maybe because there is so little humidity here), so I'm going to buy a new drum unless I can find a clean used one.
Any suggestions on a pump for getting the fuel from the drum into the car?

He said the same thing; we can pump out the tank if we want but that it won't matter either way.
The E85 out of the station I mentioned, he made 1,200whp on a Procharged Viper with it this weekend and confirmed its a good source so that's great.
He did say that on setups like mine that the dual 450 pumps I'm currently running won't get me back to where I am now whp wise and suggested upgrading to a pair of 525's so I'll add that to my list.
The plan right now is to strip the interior, remove the rest of the heater box (the AC portion is already gone), install an AC/Heater delete plate which will serve as the mounting spot for the Haltech and where the harness will go through the firewall, two birds, one stone.
I think this will make the install nice and clean plus accessing the rest of the wiring I need to remove then install and free up some space.
Then remove the factory PCM, engine harness, Cortex, Meth Kit (sad I only used this once), MSD 2-Step, injectors, 3-bar MAP Sensor and the rest of the gauges that won't be needed, get that stuff listed for sale.
Regarding traction control he also recommended going with a driveshaft speed sensor instead of using the factory wheel speed sensor as the resolution is much better and is easier to setup, so I was looking at the Motion kit for that unless somebody has a different suggestion.
So really just adding the Transbrake using AX25+ (gonna use a solid state relay for a bump feature), second fuel pump (thinking I'll use the fan control power for this since the Davies controller runs my fans/pump now), Flex Fuel Sensor and Driveshaft sensor.

 

Yes I will be there but I'm pretty sure that's when Garrett's sandrail is getting picked up so I'm sure we will be super busy. Actually we are so damn busy right now with street car takeover coming up that Joe isn't even up front in his office right now, he is in the back and on the phone as we try to get things ready.

 

Not a fan of running a 525 as a main pump constant duty. Seen too many fail that way as they are really designed to be pulsewidth modulated. Personally I would just let it eat on dual 450s and see how it responds before replacing stuff. The Haltech has built in fuel pressure compensation anyways so if pressure drops it automatically adds more fuel which admittedly will just make it drop more, but it's not dangerous unless you max out the injectors and there are safeties for that anyways.

The factory ABS wheel speed sensors are actually pretty high resolution with I think 47 teeth on them and the rears are the same unless it's a 3 sensor design and then it's like 106 teeth on the single rear carrier sensor. They are not 3 wire Hall effect sensors though, they are 2 wire reluctor/inductive sensors that generate their own voltage and can make for some inconsistent signals. The Haltech inputs have good filtering though and can use these sensors from what I've seen so I don't think you need to jump right to aftermarket Hall effect sensors when they are already there and just need to be wired in. I used them way back in the day on my old Camaro with an aftermarket TC box and they were fine.

You shouldn't need a solid state relay for that output, it can pulse high currents without one.

 

My only concern with waiting on the pumps is coming up short on the dyno and then having to pay to dyno the car again with different pumps.
There have been others I've talked to using the 525's constant duty with no issues, were your experiences with them being run by the Haltech or a different or factory ECU?
Not doubting your experience at all, just asking.
Chris1313 said -08 and twin 450's should be good for 1,000whp on E but I'm not sure if that's only with his hat and if at that point the factory bucket becomes a restriction?
The current setup is a Lonnies kit so both pumps feed into a tee that exits through the stock pressure/feed nipple, then moves up to -08AN but I think it's still 3/8" in the bucket.
I'm not looking for 1,000whp right now, just want to get back to where I am now so if 450's will do it then I'll leave them.

The only speed sensor I have in the back right now is the VSS in the TH400 tail shaft housing that provides speed to the speedometer.
I think my tuner was thinking more track based than street based and thought the drive shaft would work better, I may have misunderstood him.
I would be more likely to street race this car than track it so if the LF wheel speed sensor would work better in that application, then I'll go that direction.

IIRC he didn't say the SSR was required for the bump function but that it would help make the operation of the bump feature smoother and not so abrupt, again I may have misinterpreted him.

 

If it's a full blown race car with not much street driving we could do double/triple 525s but at that point we are looking at other fueling options. The 525s put a LOT of heat into the fuel and we've had some fail being run as a primary pump so we just don't anymore. We order all systems with a 450 main pump and 525s as 2nd/3rd pumps because of this. The ECU doesn't matter when it's just turning them on and off without any PWM.

If you have a VSS in the tail shaft of the TH400 that's literally the same thing as a driveshaft speed sensor and can be used as your drive speed sensor. Then you can just wire in a single up front on either wheel for actual vehicle speed and TC logic.

You only use a relay if you need to switch a large current with a small one, but that output on the Haltech is capable of 25 amps and can PWM it no problem so a relay is not necessary. Using it to control a solid state relay will do nothing for you because it's already essentially doing what a solid state relay does.

 

Ah okay, maybe I'll just get one 525 for the secondary then for a little extra since this is 90% a streetcar and gets cruised a lot on the one pump.
You mention PWM on the bump, just curious, is that not possible for use for fuel pump control?
If say I still don't have enough fuel supply with the 450/525 combo and needed to add a third pump, how would you recommend controlling it?
Is it possible to repurpose the fan control for fuel pump use?
Could I power the main pump (450) from the Haltech and then use a DP0 to trigger relays for the two 525's, if I leave the hotwire kits in place then I'd have everything there already.

I'll just use the wheel speed sensor then because I just bought the sensor and connector not too long ago, so I already have everything.
My thought was to use the LF since that one tends to come off the ground first or would the RF be better?

I must have misheard what he said regarding the SSR for the bump, I'd have sworn that's what he said but that's good news all the same.
We covered a lot, I was bouncing around a bit in the conversation, and you may very well know more than he does.

 

You could, but you would need to buy one of the common pump controllers on the market and then use the Haltech to control that with a PWM output. See some of the other threads that I've replied to about PWM fuel pumps for details. It is going to complicate things for sure doing this when it's not necessary with a 450 as the main pump.

I just use the same secondary pump trigger for the third pump relay so they both turn on together.

I wouldn't, you only have one 25A output and that is going to be used for the transbrake I think you said. You will still need to use an output to trigger relays for the pumps.

You want to use the one that has a tendency to stay grounded, otherwise the TC won't work using wheel speed differential as it will think the vehicle stopped accelerating and the rear wheels are spinning.

 

Okay so no go on the PWM pumps.
That was the plan for the 25A aux was for the TB.
Now for the secondary/third pumps, I would still use a DP0 for the secondary pump now (and third pump at some point) though, right?
My thought was to use the existing Haltech fuel pump output for the 450 wired direct, then reuse the two existing hotwire kits in place now for the secondary 525 and then a third if needed. Does that make sense or am I out in left field lol.
For the speed sensor, the right front wheel it is!

 

All you are doing for the 2nd/3rd pumps is using an output to trigger a relay. You can set it up however you would like but typically I'm not wasting another output just to turn on and stagger a 3rd pump, I'm just triggering both 2nd/3rd pumps together with a single output to two relays at whatever boost level.

 

Would make the most sense to have pump #2 and #3 come on at the same time.

With my Holley Dominator I have my Bosch 044 pump set up to run with keyed power, and the Weldon 2345a comes on with boost.

 

Perfect, thanks gents!
So, I'll just leave the current fuel pump wiring in place since I'll need it for the 2nd/3rd pumps using one of the DPO's to activate and power the main single 450 off the Haltech directly.
Now I'm wondering if I can shoehorn in twin 525's along with the 450 into that stock bucket.....or maybe I'll just add a third 450/525 and call it a day?