Noisy steering pump after Vortech install
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Noisy steering pump after Vortech install OK this is a steering issue, but it happened after the relocation of the power steering reservoir as per Vortech instructions, so I decided to post here.
The relocation was a little time consuming, but not difficult. Vortech supplied all the necessary parts and they fit perfectly. The system has been purged as per GM instructions and filled with new liquid (I used Dextron III as suggested by some local garages).
Now the pump is noisy under stress (parking, acceleration in curves) and after a little furious driving the reservoir is full of foam (1/2 hour race on a test track full of curves).
The foam goes away in a couple of minutes.
The steering doesn’t loose power and I can drive normally.
I also can’t see any leak. The foam is just air sucked in from somewhere.
Is the air causing the noise? From where is it coming if I see no leak?
Hope someone can help!
Thanks - Stefano
The relocation was a little time consuming, but not difficult. Vortech supplied all the necessary parts and they fit perfectly. The system has been purged as per GM instructions and filled with new liquid (I used Dextron III as suggested by some local garages).
Now the pump is noisy under stress (parking, acceleration in curves) and after a little furious driving the reservoir is full of foam (1/2 hour race on a test track full of curves).
The foam goes away in a couple of minutes.
The steering doesn’t loose power and I can drive normally.
I also can’t see any leak. The foam is just air sucked in from somewhere.
Is the air causing the noise? From where is it coming if I see no leak?
Hope someone can help!
Thanks - Stefano
Stefano, Hey glad to hear you got it installed and running. I have to believe that it is a combination of things. The Dextron III you are talking about is Trans fluid right? That could be used in older cars for sure but I just had this talk with one of my GM tech friends and he says he wouldn't do that in the newer cars now that is just his opinion and may not be a big deal but also I do believe this could be causing your foaming issue and the noise. Now I am not an expert on fluids but it could be a cheap fix to drain it and fill it back up with a high quality power steering fluid. GM used power steering fluid for a reason and not trany fluid? So give it a try I have not had any noticable noise changes from my power steering. Good luck let us know how it runs.
Jeff
Jeff
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From: Zurich - Switzerland
Well... the blower is sitting in my office 
I first want to fix this issue 'cause the pump sits just below the blower.
This of the liquid is a possibility... yes: it's the tranny fluid. It was common to use it on older cars...
I really can't figure out where this air is coming :no leaks at all! I mean: if air goes in then oil can also go out, right?
I first want to fix this issue 'cause the pump sits just below the blower.
This of the liquid is a possibility... yes: it's the tranny fluid. It was common to use it on older cars...
I really can't figure out where this air is coming :no leaks at all! I mean: if air goes in then oil can also go out, right?
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From: Downers Grove,IL
I use Type F trans fluid which is better for steering systems IMO than dexron fluids.
I have no problems with foam or noise and have used it for the last 3 years.
If you can't find a air leak,maybe give it a try.
Steve
I have no problems with foam or noise and have used it for the last 3 years.
If you can't find a air leak,maybe give it a try.
Steve
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From: Zurich - Switzerland
Steve: just a couple of blower related questions...
I see something like a check valve in your setup: was it necassary? (PCV valve)
I also see a lot of insulation: does it helps to keep the air cooler?
The blow off valve... the standars Vortech configuration leads the air back into the blower (and becomes hot!). Yours is open... in this way the MAF will measure this amount of air because it's not recirculating but going away, or not? Does it affects the fuel metering or it makes just a nice soung when it opens?
Unless you have a MAF-less system, then it's another music!
I see something like a check valve in your setup: was it necassary? (PCV valve)
I also see a lot of insulation: does it helps to keep the air cooler?
The blow off valve... the standars Vortech configuration leads the air back into the blower (and becomes hot!). Yours is open... in this way the MAF will measure this amount of air because it's not recirculating but going away, or not? Does it affects the fuel metering or it makes just a nice soung when it opens?
Unless you have a MAF-less system, then it's another music!
SJH may have something to his coment on the type F trans fluid. I don't know for sure but I still might be leaning towards what Got me some said, but you did mention the fact that you had taken it on a road course so I would think that would have been enough to get all the air out? Maybe not thought try that and then maybe a fluid change either the type F or just regular power streeing fluid and if that does not work I would think that it might be sucking air from one of you fittings and just not leaking while at rest wierd but stranger things have happened? Sorry I am just not able to tell you for sure what your problem is so just keep working on it and you will eventually figure it out though. I've talked with you and I know you are very inteligent and can figure it out. Good luck!
Jeff
Jeff
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Oh I see you were asking about the check valve Steve and a few others helped me out with that you do need to put one in between the intake and the PVC valves. Here is where I got mine as well as a few others did. http://www.mcmaster.com/
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From: Zurich - Switzerland
Yes, I did turn the steering a LOT of times, for a moment it's good then it begins again.
The foam is only after stressing the steering system a lot (safety training all day long).
I compared the steering liquid with the ATF: it's more viscous and this could be the cause of the noise. Apparently viscosity has something to do with my problem. We have some hydraulic systems in the company and the maintanance staff always has to find out which viscosity works better for wich sistem (we also have noisy pumps!)
Another thing: the hotter - the noiser (also: the hotter the less viscous).
Apparently temperature is an issue when racing and a local tuner suggested to add a cooler to the steering system, he's also sure that the AFT do foams because of other properties than the PS fluid...
What else can I say / do? Tomorrow I'll buy a can of regular PS liquid and a cooler. On Monday I'll be able to post a result.
Thanks for your comments!
Stefano
The foam is only after stressing the steering system a lot (safety training all day long).
I compared the steering liquid with the ATF: it's more viscous and this could be the cause of the noise. Apparently viscosity has something to do with my problem. We have some hydraulic systems in the company and the maintanance staff always has to find out which viscosity works better for wich sistem (we also have noisy pumps!)
Another thing: the hotter - the noiser (also: the hotter the less viscous).
Apparently temperature is an issue when racing and a local tuner suggested to add a cooler to the steering system, he's also sure that the AFT do foams because of other properties than the PS fluid...
What else can I say / do? Tomorrow I'll buy a can of regular PS liquid and a cooler. On Monday I'll be able to post a result.
Thanks for your comments!
Stefano
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From: Downers Grove,IL
Steve: just a couple of blower related questions...
I see something like a check valve in your setup: was it necassary? (PCV valve)
I also see a lot of insulation: does it helps to keep the air cooler?
The blow off valve... the standars Vortech configuration leads the air back into the blower (and becomes hot!). Yours is open... in this way the MAF will measure this amount of air because it's not recirculating but going away, or not? Does it affects the fuel metering or it makes just a nice soung when it opens?
Unless you have a MAF-less system, then it's another music!
I see something like a check valve in your setup: was it necassary? (PCV valve)
I also see a lot of insulation: does it helps to keep the air cooler?
The blow off valve... the standars Vortech configuration leads the air back into the blower (and becomes hot!). Yours is open... in this way the MAF will measure this amount of air because it's not recirculating but going away, or not? Does it affects the fuel metering or it makes just a nice soung when it opens?
Unless you have a MAF-less system, then it's another music!
I am using a big 4" aluminum elbow for the blower inlet. The headers are right below it and the insulation helps keep the incoming air into the blower cooler.
Cooler air into the blower is MUCH more benficial than cooling the air after it's been compressed(intercooling). So anything you can do to keep the air cool up to the point it is compressed is a plus.
I am using a big Mondo bypass valve vented to atomsphere.
I am running a 2.5" pulley which really zings the g-trim up high. Stock bypass will not cut it.
My maf is relocated to just before the throttle body on the pressure side. This allows me to run the bypass open at all times.
Benefit is a dramatically cooler running blower head unit and a solid 40' drop in cruise IAT's from the blower outlet before it enters the intercooler.
Steve
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Mhhh... I like this of the 40* cooler blower inlet! I was also thinking at some kind of insulation. Something like what is used for the turbo's (exhaust turbine).
I guess it's really necessary to relocate the MAF after the blower, or is there another way to blow the air in the atmosphere without having troubles? The MAF will see this additional air...
I guess it's really necessary to relocate the MAF after the blower, or is there another way to blow the air in the atmosphere without having troubles? The MAF will see this additional air...
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No way to bypass to atmosphere without relocating the Maf to pressure side,and the maf needs to be pretty far away from the bypass to work well.
The amount of air flowing out of the bypass is huge, at least with the Mondo valve anyhow. I had to fab a silencer for the bypass as the roar of the bypassing air was even louder than my exhaust.
With a very good intercooler, the cruising IAT drop of 40' at the blowers outlet would not be of much value. But the much cooler blower head unit is probably worth about 20RWHP on the street. At the track when you can cool down the blower before a pass it would make no difference.
So moving the maf to pressure side and bypassing to air is most beneficial on the street.
I use Thermo-tec insulation. Works very good.
Steve
The amount of air flowing out of the bypass is huge, at least with the Mondo valve anyhow. I had to fab a silencer for the bypass as the roar of the bypassing air was even louder than my exhaust.
With a very good intercooler, the cruising IAT drop of 40' at the blowers outlet would not be of much value. But the much cooler blower head unit is probably worth about 20RWHP on the street. At the track when you can cool down the blower before a pass it would make no difference.
So moving the maf to pressure side and bypassing to air is most beneficial on the street.
I use Thermo-tec insulation. Works very good.
Steve
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OK let me first try with the standard Vortech setup: I'll put a couple of temperature sensors in the pipes and record what happens.
Insulation is not an issue, I also have a functional Ram Air and I'll connect the blower to it (see my homepage). It should also help to cool.
By the way: only after receiving the kit I discovered that the Vortech guarantee is only for the USA. This really pisses me off! New toy, full price, and I have to pay if a **** made a mistake. The fuel pump has been assembled in the wrongest possible way, what about the blower? All bearings there?
Another thing: low temperature. There were no informations in the advertising about a low temperature restriction (25F). Our winters are colder than that!
What happens if I just disconnect the belt and load the stock program? This only for one month or two a year. I think the blower isn't thaht big air restriction and the oil will just flow thru...
Insulation is not an issue, I also have a functional Ram Air and I'll connect the blower to it (see my homepage). It should also help to cool.
By the way: only after receiving the kit I discovered that the Vortech guarantee is only for the USA. This really pisses me off! New toy, full price, and I have to pay if a **** made a mistake. The fuel pump has been assembled in the wrongest possible way, what about the blower? All bearings there?
Another thing: low temperature. There were no informations in the advertising about a low temperature restriction (25F). Our winters are colder than that!
What happens if I just disconnect the belt and load the stock program? This only for one month or two a year. I think the blower isn't thaht big air restriction and the oil will just flow thru...
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I don't have any suggestions on why you're having a problem or how to fix it. But if you decide that the pump is toast I highly suggest looking up a company called TurnOne. They make an aftermarket pump for the F car that keeps your pump running cooler, and stealing less power from the crank. I just got one and love it.
Mike
Mike
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OK the cooler is in (air to oil). There's a big temperature difference: before I wasn't able to hold my hand on the reservoir!
I also filled the system with the newest GM fluid ("reduces pump noise and so on...").
Result: the noise is still there
But: I went a couple of times on the car lift this weekend and I bleeded the system every time, and every time there was some air bubble coming out. Every time the pump became a little quiter.
Ill do it again a couple of times and see.
Probaby my problem is a combination of things: heat, wrong fluid, air in the system and a pump with 50'000 miles on it.
I just wonder how does GM bleed the system when they assemble the car...
I also filled the system with the newest GM fluid ("reduces pump noise and so on...").
Result: the noise is still there
But: I went a couple of times on the car lift this weekend and I bleeded the system every time, and every time there was some air bubble coming out. Every time the pump became a little quiter.
Ill do it again a couple of times and see.
Probaby my problem is a combination of things: heat, wrong fluid, air in the system and a pump with 50'000 miles on it.
I just wonder how does GM bleed the system when they assemble the car...