408ci
obzidian, the same exact **** just happened to me. i originally was gonna go NA 408, orderedR $1350 headers, didnt even take them out of the box, and now have to sell them for a loss cause im goin turbo. in the end, i know it will be worth it, because not a lot of people are running that kinda setup. but first make a budget and go over that budget with ape or who ever your company is, because i guaruntee, it will be a lot more then you think.
just to give you an example, with motor, turbo setup, fuel, and rear end, im prob close to 33k into it, with originally planning on around 8k to spend on everything.
so what im sayin is, before you do anything, make sure you can afford it so you know what your getting yourself into.
just to give you an example, with motor, turbo setup, fuel, and rear end, im prob close to 33k into it, with originally planning on around 8k to spend on everything.
so what im sayin is, before you do anything, make sure you can afford it so you know what your getting yourself into.
i chose to do n/a now because i couldnt handle with the maintenance of a fi system right now. As for the time without a motor, well, ive waited longer for other things nd i wouldnt mind waiting if it was for something like that.
And i wouldnt say that there isnt a production system that could offer that much power out of a supercharger. The procharger f1 kit is more than capable to produce that much power with the right set-up. Also the d1-sc can handle up to 925hp@crank....which is about 780hp to the wheels. Well with in my goals.
if not, i can always go to a bigger turbine like an f-2 or maybe an f-4 (now that is crazy....14" turbine?) and go all out!!!! Its just i feel that even though turbos are more efficient and are able to produce "more" power out of the same boost, a porperly built centrifigual charger system can definitely match with a turbo system.
And i wouldnt say that there isnt a production system that could offer that much power out of a supercharger. The procharger f1 kit is more than capable to produce that much power with the right set-up. Also the d1-sc can handle up to 925hp@crank....which is about 780hp to the wheels. Well with in my goals.
if not, i can always go to a bigger turbine like an f-2 or maybe an f-4 (now that is crazy....14" turbine?) and go all out!!!! Its just i feel that even though turbos are more efficient and are able to produce "more" power out of the same boost, a porperly built centrifigual charger system can definitely match with a turbo system.
Originally Posted by 2000 Tran Zam
obzidian, the same exact **** just happened to me. i originally was gonna go NA 408, orderedR $1350 headers, didnt even take them out of the box, and now have to sell them for a loss cause im goin turbo. in the end, i know it will be worth it, because not a lot of people are running that kinda setup. but first make a budget and go over that budget with ape or who ever your company is, because i guaruntee, it will be a lot more then you think.
just to give you an example, with motor, turbo setup, fuel, and rear end, im prob close to 33k into it, with originally planning on around 8k to spend on everything.
so what im sayin is, before you do anything, make sure you can afford it so you know what your getting yourself into.
just to give you an example, with motor, turbo setup, fuel, and rear end, im prob close to 33k into it, with originally planning on around 8k to spend on everything.
so what im sayin is, before you do anything, make sure you can afford it so you know what your getting yourself into.
before, i had some cash saved up to install a rear and some nice wheels and tires but "blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!" goes the motor and now im about 3k over budget.....
it was a huge mistake in thinking that i would keep this ride stock until i finished my degree......but, having enjoying every moment though broke and having everything from the .99 cent menu at my local(s) fast food spot.
Originally Posted by obZidian
it was a huge mistake in thinking that i would keep this ride stock until i finished my degree......but, having enjoying every moment though broke and having everything from the .99 cent menu at my local(s) fast food spot.
tell me about it...... im so into my ride that im like...... $5 on a value meal..... hell no ill take a .99 burger and put the rest towards the car....
Kyle
Let me see if I got it..
800rwhp by using blower, a low compression 408ci, and keep your current hood.
There is a physical limit to blower head unit or turbocharger you can run on our cars with stock location stuff. I'll just comment on the blower stuff. F2 stuff might be very hard to fit in a stock engine compartment.
I really have not seen a A4 make 800rwhp+ yet with a blower, I think most folks ditch the 4L60E by that point. I have hit 738rwhp with a Vortech YSi and a non lock up T400 converter.
800rwhp by using blower, a low compression 408ci, and keep your current hood.
There is a physical limit to blower head unit or turbocharger you can run on our cars with stock location stuff. I'll just comment on the blower stuff. F2 stuff might be very hard to fit in a stock engine compartment.
I really have not seen a A4 make 800rwhp+ yet with a blower, I think most folks ditch the 4L60E by that point. I have hit 738rwhp with a Vortech YSi and a non lock up T400 converter.
i didn't read this entire post. i just got a 408, the compresion calculates out to around 8.8x-1. i am running a t76 with a .96ar. the off idle tq is amazing and the boost comes on almost instantly. my truck weighs close to 5000lb's and i have never had anything that was this much fun to drive. with some sticy tires and pump gas at 9psi i could see high 10's. i have ran this exact combo with a 362ci and a 292ci. the extra tq from the 408 kicks ***.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SS00Blue
THE FACT IS:
8.5:1 is low for a street car, but it WILL work for a strip-only pump-gas car. No question.
8.5:1 is low for a street car, but it WILL work for a strip-only pump-gas car. No question.
7:1 compression is low for a street car. Go to Europe and you see lots of people driving around in 4 cylinder motors with 7:1 and even less compression. My Nephew lives in the UK, he has an escort cosworth with a built motor and 6.5:1 compression. Then you could make a case for the off boost response being poor, but not at 8.5:1, and ESPECIALLY not 8.5:1 on a 408 inch beast. Figuring a 3% power loss for every full point in compression, that's 3% from a 9.5:1 motor. Lets say your 408 makes 500 RWHP at 9.5:1 compression. Drop down to 8.5:1 compression and you have an epic power loss of 15 RWHP. Stop the presses, this is big news. Fact is on a street car I would much rather have that added margin of safety from lower compression, as well as the ability to produce more peak horsepower at WOT for when I want lots of power. Do you take your buddies for a ride in your car and say "Man, did you feel that off boost response? When we pulled out of that parking lot at 10% throttle, it was smooth as a hummingbird. 9.5:1 compression baby!" I don't know about you, but I don't.
A low compression LS1 is a world different from say a turbocharged EVO. With the 4-6 cylinder turbo stuff you really feel the difference.
An FI'd LS1/V8 is not gonna feel like a pooch at 8-8.5:1. IMO you can't go wrong with 8.5:1.
An FI'd LS1/V8 is not gonna feel like a pooch at 8-8.5:1. IMO you can't go wrong with 8.5:1.
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Verdad Gallardo so basically, if i do go ahead and drop the compression to 8.5:1, and setup the blower, let say a d1-sc which should fit under the hood, i could reach power levels close to 780-800hp to the wheels? Thats of course considering that i'll have all the bolt-ons by then, ungraded fuel system and a sweet tune, possibly 15-20psi will do it?
im more partial to the centrifugal system and would like to see how far it could take me.
wat kind of hood-clearance will i need with a fi-blower or is it impossible.
im more partial to the centrifugal system and would like to see how far it could take me.
wat kind of hood-clearance will i need with a fi-blower or is it impossible.
THE FACT IS: 8.5:1 is not low for a street car at all
7:1 compression is low for a street car. Go to Europe and you see lots of people driving around in 4 cylinder motors with 7:1 and even less compression. My Nephew lives in the UK, he has an escort cosworth with a built motor and 6.5:1 compression. Then you could make a case for the off boost response being poor, but not at 8.5:1, and ESPECIALLY not 8.5:1 on a 408 inch beast. Figuring a 3% power loss for every full point in compression, that's 3% from a 9.5:1 motor. Lets say your 408 makes 500 RWHP at 9.5:1 compression. Drop down to 8.5:1 compression and you have an epic power loss of 15 RWHP. Stop the presses, this is big news. Fact is on a street car I would much rather have that added margin of safety from lower compression, as well as the ability to produce more peak horsepower at WOT for when I want lots of power. Do you take your buddies for a ride in your car and say "Man, did you feel that off boost response? When we pulled out of that parking lot at 10% throttle, it was smooth as a hummingbird. 9.5:1 compression baby!" I don't know about you, but I don't.
7:1 compression is low for a street car. Go to Europe and you see lots of people driving around in 4 cylinder motors with 7:1 and even less compression. My Nephew lives in the UK, he has an escort cosworth with a built motor and 6.5:1 compression. Then you could make a case for the off boost response being poor, but not at 8.5:1, and ESPECIALLY not 8.5:1 on a 408 inch beast. Figuring a 3% power loss for every full point in compression, that's 3% from a 9.5:1 motor. Lets say your 408 makes 500 RWHP at 9.5:1 compression. Drop down to 8.5:1 compression and you have an epic power loss of 15 RWHP. Stop the presses, this is big news. Fact is on a street car I would much rather have that added margin of safety from lower compression, as well as the ability to produce more peak horsepower at WOT for when I want lots of power. Do you take your buddies for a ride in your car and say "Man, did you feel that off boost response? When we pulled out of that parking lot at 10% throttle, it was smooth as a hummingbird. 9.5:1 compression baby!" I don't know about you, but I don't.
you won't even be able to get it to move hardly...i garuntee a 408 with 5.5:1 compression with a theorized 440hp will run no where near a 400hp 346ci on 10:1 compression...as far as the thread is concerned...1dirtyz has a 408 with a f1-r supercharger...he made 900ft/lbs and 850rwhp w/100shot...so i don't know why you are telling him it can't be done...i know the nitrous helps big time but still...that's 100rwhp over what he is hoping for...so i'm sure he could up the boost some and make up for that nitrous..or he could just spray himself
right.i was just looking at his post.........
i dont want to spray it though very tempted to...
He has almost the exact setup im looking for and it seems to be quit streetable...that 04 cobra didnt know wat hit him!!! Like if they were stopped!! Anyways, considering it, i think in the future i wouldnt mind dropping new pistons and dropping it to 8.5 comp., which should be fine....
owever, my biggext concern is the hood clearance. If anyone could chime in on this that would great.
So right now im looking at:
8.5 comp.
procharger f1-r blower
no nitrous 750-800hp @ da wheels
fuel system upgrade (already have the racetronix and 42lbs. injectors)
appropriate beltdrive(s) upgrade
possible hood adjustment
Am i missing anything?
thanks ya'll for all your help.....
i dont want to spray it though very tempted to...
He has almost the exact setup im looking for and it seems to be quit streetable...that 04 cobra didnt know wat hit him!!! Like if they were stopped!! Anyways, considering it, i think in the future i wouldnt mind dropping new pistons and dropping it to 8.5 comp., which should be fine....
owever, my biggext concern is the hood clearance. If anyone could chime in on this that would great.
So right now im looking at:
8.5 comp.
procharger f1-r blower
no nitrous 750-800hp @ da wheels
fuel system upgrade (already have the racetronix and 42lbs. injectors)
appropriate beltdrive(s) upgrade
possible hood adjustment
Am i missing anything?
thanks ya'll for all your help.....
yeah...you will need a lot more than "fuel system upgrade (already have the racetronix and 42lbs. injectors)" and i don't think you will have hood clearence issues with that f1-r...good luck
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Let me see if I got it..
800rwhp by using blower, a low compression 408ci, and keep your current hood.
There is a physical limit to blower head unit or turbocharger you can run on our cars with stock location stuff. I'll just comment on the blower stuff. F2 stuff might be very hard to fit in a stock engine compartment.
I really have not seen a A4 make 800rwhp+ yet with a blower, I think most folks ditch the 4L60E by that point. I have hit 738rwhp with a Vortech YSi and a non lock up T400 converter.
800rwhp by using blower, a low compression 408ci, and keep your current hood.
There is a physical limit to blower head unit or turbocharger you can run on our cars with stock location stuff. I'll just comment on the blower stuff. F2 stuff might be very hard to fit in a stock engine compartment.
I really have not seen a A4 make 800rwhp+ yet with a blower, I think most folks ditch the 4L60E by that point. I have hit 738rwhp with a Vortech YSi and a non lock up T400 converter.
Hey John......my F2 fit under the hood and in my stock engine compartment
wats up chris!!
trying to free everything up to make it to brandenton.....
anyways, thats wat i figured. MY tranny right now is "rated" at 650hp. can a 4l60e run those kind of numbers?
Also, besides the possible upgrade in injectors, possible EMU upgrade, pressure regulator and another pump....wat am i missing? Fuel rails? Lines of course and calibration but not that much.
trying to free everything up to make it to brandenton.....
anyways, thats wat i figured. MY tranny right now is "rated" at 650hp. can a 4l60e run those kind of numbers?
Also, besides the possible upgrade in injectors, possible EMU upgrade, pressure regulator and another pump....wat am i missing? Fuel rails? Lines of course and calibration but not that much.
if you ask me 8.5:1 is very streetable, i drive my car everyday and i run crappy 91 octane.
my opinion could be biased, but i like the supercharger over a turbo for ease of instalation and ease of tuning.
you shouldn't have any hood issues with a procharger setup, a votech maybe.
and with the right tensioner setup from SDCE ---> you shouldn't have any belt issues.
you should also look into ARP studs and o-ringing the block, that really helps.
get some 75 lbs /hr injectors, good regulator, and a 420 lph pump and you should have most of your system covered. you can also get speed inc's fule system kit which comes with amost everything you need.
as for the tranny, i agree with PSJ, just ditch the 4L-60 and get a built th-400 for your peace of mind.
i'm sure you could hit 700 with boost alone, my numbers are not a very good representation; i still have the the same timing table as i did in the 10:1 motor ( maybe a degree more or two). i didn't mess with it thinking that this would be a safe setup when it gets hotter outside.
i also know that the intercooler i have is not that efficient, my intake temps go from 73 deg. to about 130 by the end of the pull.
so if you do your homework and not cut corners like i did, i'm sure 700 hp is i very reasonable goal with an F1-R and no N2O.
my opinion could be biased, but i like the supercharger over a turbo for ease of instalation and ease of tuning.
you shouldn't have any hood issues with a procharger setup, a votech maybe.
and with the right tensioner setup from SDCE ---> you shouldn't have any belt issues.
you should also look into ARP studs and o-ringing the block, that really helps.
get some 75 lbs /hr injectors, good regulator, and a 420 lph pump and you should have most of your system covered. you can also get speed inc's fule system kit which comes with amost everything you need.
as for the tranny, i agree with PSJ, just ditch the 4L-60 and get a built th-400 for your peace of mind.
i'm sure you could hit 700 with boost alone, my numbers are not a very good representation; i still have the the same timing table as i did in the 10:1 motor ( maybe a degree more or two). i didn't mess with it thinking that this would be a safe setup when it gets hotter outside.
i also know that the intercooler i have is not that efficient, my intake temps go from 73 deg. to about 130 by the end of the pull.
so if you do your homework and not cut corners like i did, i'm sure 700 hp is i very reasonable goal with an F1-R and no N2O.
thanks, i do have the APR studs in the new block and about the fuel....think about a inline pump, though noisy...i guess im cutting corners since i hate to drop the fuel tank!!!
as for the tranny, i dont know much about the th400,....could anybody chime in? I want something that i cam autocross with and not just drag.
thanks guys.......
as for the tranny, i dont know much about the th400,....could anybody chime in? I want something that i cam autocross with and not just drag.
thanks guys.......
auto cross !! now your being picky 
you don't have to drop the tank , you could cut an access hole in the top of the tank ( behind the rear seats) and changing a pump takes 10 mins.
if you have a decent exhaust you can't hear the inline pump. plus you can have the inline pump come on under boost only by using a hobbs switch.
you don't have to drop the tank , you could cut an access hole in the top of the tank ( behind the rear seats) and changing a pump takes 10 mins.
if you have a decent exhaust you can't hear the inline pump. plus you can have the inline pump come on under boost only by using a hobbs switch.