Bryan, do yourself a favor and stop trying to match technical wits with Jim. You come out on the losing end every time. Your car is impressive, but the way you go on and on isn't. Let it go, and enjoy your car. The bottomline is Jims car is more impressive. Less money, more power, and ET's to back it up. When you run anything(ET), other than your mouth, or a dyno number, get back to us. Until then>>>>


Bruce

 

Why is everyone stuck on 93 octane? Why would someone spend 20k on a motor and run 93 pump gas? You never know what your getting out of the pump. Age, water %, octane, blends. At very least I would buy drum 93 octane. If I'm looking for max effort motor, I'm not looking to save a few dollars on some fuel. Why leave hp on the table with gas? If saving money on gas or getting MPG is the main goal, buy a Geo Metro. I don't think thats any of our goals. Oh well, thats my rant.

 

my car makes 800rwhp on speed inc's dyno and goes 8.57 and has trapped 159mph at 3150lbs..... care to explain that?

 

8secLT1, You obviously use really good wax on your paint, thus eliminating friction.

I spent $20k on my last 18 degree motor. Never saw a drip of race gas. Fastest n/a pumpgas Fuel injected sbc in town! My whole philosiphy is, Why run race gas when I can make the car do what I need on pumpgas!
It all depends what your personnal goals are. I would rather make only 1000hp on pumpgas for my street only car, then make 1200 hp and have to spend $6 a gallon. In a race car that 200hp is a big deal, for my street car it is not. Me, I sold my high dollar N/A setup and will now just be running a cheapy Twin turbo setup, I am personnaly happy knowing I can only make 1000hp.

It's all personal goal!

 

Bryan's car might be "efficient," but his brain sure lacks any "efficiency."

 

It's a small town buddy hahaha

 

Now that was some good reading

 

Took my car to the track today ran 16.4 @ 78mph. You all proved your point. My car is way too slow for the likes of this group, and this group is just way to smart for me. I'm just going to stick to building soap box derby cars.

Thanks for your time.

 

I think that part of the issue is that the folks making power with race gas feel like you are doggin' them in spite of the fact that your car has not put down a track pass mph that reflects your power level.... and they have.

I made 752rwhp with C16, maybe can make it with 110, but definitely cannot make it on 93 pump gas. I'm not a believer in alky injection for my power level, mostly due to lack of experience and fear. I exhaustively checked around to see what would be the max 93 pump level for my combo, and it was maybe 650rwhp. At the end of the day, no tuner is gonna advocate that I flog my car at the track with 93 pump and my pulley combo and my overall setup.

I could have gone for more of a pump gas setup, but that would have been a 8:1 387ci or something like that. 4.100 bore + stock stroke. Heck if i wanted 900rwhp on pump gas I would have built a 540BBC.

 

Jim uses a t56 in his setup.

 

your car isn't street legal. Last time i looked, the ATI F1 isn't a street legal supercharger and ATI deemed it for off road use only. So by driving that car on the street makes it illegal, and unsafe for road use stated by the Federal Goverment, and EPA.

 

Just incase you didnt notice this isnt hot rod magazine..... who cares what they say
you had someone build your car to make over 800rwhp on pump gas... congrats...
I have seen your car in person. not impressed

then... lil bit later...

maybe you are doubting his numbers...


santore

 

Bryan,

Trying to have a technical discussion with you is an exercise in futility, as you do not possess enough knowledge of the subject at hand.

If you have any other questions, please refer to my first response to this thread. Than read it again, and again. If you happen to absorb any of the information, your questions will be answered.

Also, it smells much better in here since you removed all the bullshit you posted in the 'other' thread, thanks!

 

I will continue to take your abuse of me and my knowledge. that is fine. I am never going to post any more technical information on this forum again.

I have been to the track with the car, but as I told you and john earlier if you remember, there was a problem and something got stuck in the blowoff valve, because of some pluming coming off and was forcing the car to not make over 400rwhp. 12.7 @ 115 remember. We took it back to the shop and found that piece of plastic that had come off. The car was falling on its face at 5000RPM.

I am dying to get back to the track. Because I A. Want to learn how to drive the car at the track, and B. I want the proof that everyone seems to be requiring of me.

So today I am indeed a "Dyno Queen" as you put it because I have not been to the track on full power. I am very sorry for chastising you or anyone else about running on race gas. That is your choice. I on the other hand continue to be thick headed and believe that my car is capable of making those numbers on pump gas at the track. If I cant do it after proving to myself that I can drive the car, I will throw race gas at it and we will see what I get. I told you I filled the tank up last week with race gas, and discovered yesterday that I lost my one of my 02 sensors and one of my wideband sensors, so I will not be doing that again for a while. I have been driving around on open loop trying to figure it out.

I told you that yesterday, I was goint to dyno with the F1-R, and because Thursday night, the intercooler was sold, we just opted to take it off and wait for the new IC from Griffin. I had them design a bottom in top out as opposed to a side in side out. They promised me two weeks. I am submitting my application for the HPP thing. I would enterain the compeition, and if you beat me, you beat me, I am not trying to be faster than you, but like you the math tells me that the car is capable of 232mph. I told you my friend at the beach as seen 203 in his corvette. I want it to. I am much more interested in trap speed than 1/4 mile time, but I think thoy go hand in hand.

As soon as Rockingham starts back up with their Friday night stuff, or Darlington sets something up again, I will go. I would love and I mean every word I am saying to have you and John both come down here and show me how to drive my car as long as you dont purposely drive it into a wall. If you (Jim) have a 6 speed, come on. If we blow up the transmission, I am not made out of money, but I could afford another transmission. You can continue to beat me down about my knowledge, I will not be offeded. I know what I designed, and I know how it runs, and what I have, and what power is shows on a dynojet. For some reason I feel the need to prove to you and everyone else that it is what the dynograph says. If you are making that power, that you say you are, (still no dyno graph, at least show me something that is close to what you are claiming), and you are able to get your car to hook. I can promise you if my suspension will not allow it to happen, I have a chassis builder that builds drag cars for a living right across the street, he runs a Fiero Tube car 1200hp, 6sec 1/4 mile. He can set the suspension up to do it, but I have to know how far to go, as the car has not been at the track on this power.

You went about this the wrong way. If I am not suppose to attack you because you chose to run on race gas, I would execpt the same from you for chosing to run on pump gas. The advice that have given in the past is not based on any scientific information. It is based on the experience I developed building mine and I am finding that not all old school rules apply at least in muy case. So maybe that is what continues to **** everyone off. Am I arrogant, unfortunately, and it gets increasingly worse as I have to defend myself. But As I continue to see posts and responses, I am learning that not everyone knows as much as they think they do.

So for now, this is all I have to offer until the tracks down here open up. My first runs will not be on slicks. They will be on Nitto 555's. I am told that Slicks get funny when you let off of them at the upper end. So until I get enough experience at high speed or someone with experience comes down to show me, then this is where we are a "Dyno Queen"

Response to other post
I dont care.

This was on the F-1 Blower @ 16PSI
http://www.perigee.net/~lunapark/dyno.jpg

 

John, read the post I sent to jim, but track times are coming. As soon as they track opens. I am not arguing with anyone else. I am done. I did send you a PM, the least you could do is offer some advice. Ask Plan B. I have a very good understanding of everything that I have been talking about.

 

I really don't think you're reading what I'm posting. FWIW, all I said in the other thread was, "if you've read this far, take it with a grain of salt".

You automatically assumed I was talking about you, and challenged the efficiency of my setup.

-I never claimed your car did not make what you said it did on the dyno. I only said that it cannot be proven reliable on the dyno, only in real world conditions.

-I never claimed my setup was more efficient, I know it is not efficient, as compromises were made in order to achieve all of my goals.

-BTW, I dynoed one of our single turbo cars yesterday, 347ci ls1, 224/224 113lsa cam, 9-1 compression, 20deg timing, t-76 turbo, 112octane fuel, 16.8lbs of boost, 846rwhp.

-You say the shop car is not relevant? Why, because it's a fair comparison? You talk about efficiency but our stock displacement LS1's make the same power as your 427, and our 427 makes way the hell more power.

And again, you challenged the "efficiency" of my setup, not the other way around.

These are the things I was referring to, when I said, "take it with a grain of salt" -(quotes of yours)


"Boost and What gas you run have absolutely nothing to do with each other."


"What he should have said is static compression ratio. If the static compression ratio never gets to a detonation point, then the amount of boost has no reference to his statement."

"I'll tell you why, because I would rather have a supercharged or turbo'd motor that showed zero boost than one with 30#'s."

"I would think the PCM would know more about what was safe and what was not. If it thought it was unsafe, it would cut the timing, would it not?"

"Low RPM drivablity is depentent on one thing, intake velocity."

"obviously this conversation is beyond your comprehension.

Power is all about controlling heat in the combustion chamber. 110 is used to reduce that heat. You can do the same by adding fuel through the pcm, and adjusting the timing."

"Grant, When you make the power that I do, then you can challenge me on theroy"

"Supra's are nothing more than wanna be's, take your story to a tuner forum."

"Make no mistake, You know and I know and everyone else that knows anything about tuning I can throw race gas at this, raise the timing, and be at or above you on the TQ, we know what would happen to the HP number."

"Time at the track has 0 percent to do with this thread, take it somewhere else. We all know that if our cars weight the same, and have the same power, we will do the same at the track."


-All of the above is bullshit on one level or another.


As far as my car, you are correct, it traps about 143mph @20psi boost. The 149.4mph was with 24psi boost, which is probably around 940rwhp. (I've posted all this before).

You're accusing me of making more power than I claim? Ok, I guess you got me on that one.

I will post up a dyno sheet just for you on monday. Unlike yours, it goes well past 5,400rpms. I take it you're still having issues. (you lifted early and it was obviously not at peak HP yet)

-Jim

 

Bryan.....Jim,

i don't see why either one of you are arguing the use of 93 or 110 octane. you've each got different ideas how you want your cars to run.
i am aiming for 1200+ fwhp on 93 octane, and would have no problem throwing in 110 and see how much more power i can get out of it.
i may be able to get 1500+ out of it on the dyno, but i have too much wrapped up in the setup to push the car that hard on the track. i will
be VERY happy with mid 8's on pump gas, and with the rulebooks requiring a full funnycar type cage to go faster than 8.50, i will only go faster
when i'm ready to get kicked off the track. i do not want that type of car. i am building a car that's similar to both of yours in some ways,
and in others, not.
some guys want a full drag car, some don't mind a trailer/dyno queen. some want Pro Touring, others want imports. be happy with what you
have because so many here would love to have our setups but can't for one reason or another.

Jim.....your car is awesome!

Bryan.......your car is awesome!

you each have a great deal of knowledge, more than i may ever have myself. personally, my entire car is being designed by someone whom i
have a great deal of repect for for his level of knowledge, and his similar taste for cars. if i could do the work myself, i would, and would love it.
i know, getting off track here. but you guys should really just show what you've got, congradulate each other if that's what they're happy with
having, and leave it at that. at least for the most part you've kept your remarks to each other civilized, so why not let it end that way and
move on. pass on your knowledge so others can learn, and let this board, LS1 Tech, become an even greater source for fellow enthusiasts.

No, i'm not running for mayor or anything, but i do approve this message.

later,
Dave

 

I guess that's the whole point.

I did not call him out on anything personally until he challenged me.

The quotes in my above post, is what I was calling him out on.

The following mess was just a byproduct.

 

Bryan, if you run that kind of power on Nittos, you're going to be real disappointed at the track.....at the VERY LEAST get some ET Streets and pump them up to 18psi if you want a stable top end feel...Et Streets at 18-20psi feel very stable and are light years better than Nittos .IMHO it's not worth going to the track with 800rwhp and Nittos....never hook...bad et and bad mph...and not very safe.

 

Jim,
I apologize. I took it the wrong way. I still would like to see the dyno graph, if it is not a problem.

As I have been told, and you may be able to confirm for me as you have more experience than I at building engines, that RPM kills rods. The Rod I used is a Carrillo A-Beam (the same one used in the lemans C5-R program, not C-6) and according to Carrillo I was suppose to be limited to 650RWHP N/A. They said on a boosted application that because power was being made by compression that the limit of the rod was higher. When I designed all of this, I was couning on 700 at the Flywheel. I had no intentions on ending up with what I got. So based on that information I am scared to rev past 6000 RPM. They said those rods are tested at their facility up to 9000RPM for over 48 hours.

Any thoughts.