Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

Other than the obvious frictional differences, is there any advantages/ disadvantages of either? Ive read the price difference is huge.....

Im still learning this new field since Ill be going this route sometime.... Too bad noone has any data on their kits yet

Boostaholic

iTrader: (4)

Less overall wear on the turbos, but you have to keep them cool / let them cool down properly as you should with any turbo.

sb427f-car

can you get liquid cooled garrette housings?? I know they do that on deisel apps. (holset does)

red ws6 99

hHey will spool slightly quicker, have less rotating friction. But will need cleaner oil. The traditional "bearings" in the old turbos are not even bearings they pretty much just bushings. Yes garrett has options on there turbos for water cooled. The GT series like used on the Incon kit were dual ball bearing and water cooled. You can even get the old T series with water cooled if you want.

Gary

billybob77036

The point of a ball bearing is also to get a bigger turbo to spool up faster, allowing you to run a bigger turbo ("better" boost) for an application, which otherwise would not be possible.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

I was going to run a T76 setup since thats about the biggest that will fit with the PTK kit.

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Ok, here's a quick rundown. The Turbonetics single BB turbos have generally been pretty durable under high boost apps. The new Garrett GT dual BB's we have had a few fail, so I'm not to crazy about them at all. The standard journal bearing turbos, well they will darn near last forever if you change the oil...hehe.

Jose

billybob77036

What is it that is failing on them? Those are water-cooled, are all the failed ones using this feature or what exactly is it causing them to fail?

kbracing96

iTrader: (25)

This is just something I heard, and not sure if it is even true, but I will throw it out anyway. I think it is something to do with harmonics between the 2 ball bearings spinning that fast that causes them to fail. Just a though...

Kyle

billybob77036

Intresting thought. I know of one GT42 that has been making 40+PSI on a diesel truck for over a year now without failing. Also there is no water line hooked up to it either like I think there should be.

Of course something to do with it might be the fact that the turbo was hand built by a Garret engineer.

Spin

i havnt seen any proof for this but i heared the spool up time difference between a DBB turbo and a traditional turbo of an equivlent size was finominal, or at least its said ot be that noticable on a 4cyl, havnt heared anything about a big displacement engine tho.
and as far as the water cooled part is concerned, not all the DBB turbo's have water cooled bearings, however most do, and id be willing to bet that every manufacturer of turbos will strongly recomend you use a turbo with that feature to prolong turbo and bearing life. after all, turbos only fail because of 3 things. 1) heat 2) foreign objects such as dirty oil in the bearings or debris coming through the intake/exhaust housings 3) whoever installed that turbo screwed something up big time... and water cooled bearings can help keep #1 and 1st half of #2 from happeneing, tho it may cause #3 to happen more often. other than that a turbo will basically last forever, you may have to rebuild it/replace bearings if your car has a turbo that your grandfather installed on it when he was 16, or if you got the turbo out of a junk/salvage yard and dont trust it to be in good shape

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

I have had a few units that have failed due to the wheel becoming intimate with its cover . Looks like the wheels are reaching a frequency where its making the shaft wobble somewhat and thats where you get the wheels touching the compressor cover. I have had only 1 GT42R come back with a problem, but I think it was due to oil contamination.

Jose

KissMySSo1

iTrader: (2)

Ball bearing option is just a waste of money.

It does nothing.

The ball bearing option is for a small displacment engine 4/6 cylinder to run a huge turbo. With the displacments us V8 guys have we shouldn't even think about it. We would just wasting out money.

It also cost more to rebuild and is actually less reliable.

sb427f-car

Inspector12

iTrader: (29)

What is your basis for your claim? I am just asking I am just trying ot learn a little bit more info on turbos that is why I ask.

KissMySSo1

iTrader: (2)

SB427F-CAR why is it BS?
Thats 100% true. DBB is dumb.
Is there a reason for your turbo to spool quicker?
Are you always racing people at 3000RPM were you don't need boost.
Why don't you explain.

INSPECTOR12- The basis for my claim is there is no reason for a turbo to spool quicker. The reason for the DBB option is mostly for small displacment engines to make big power. For instance, say i have a 4 cyl. honda. i want a huge 70mm turbo to make 600 HP. it doesn't spool till 6500rpm. When i shift at redline it drops my RPM's to 6000. For that reason i buy a DBB option on my turbo so i have boost sooner..

But when you have boost at say 4000 RPM already due to big cubes. Is there a reason to have it spool quicker?

If so please enlighten me.

sb427f-car

Anytime you can remove friction from a surface, it will enherently be quicker. I don't know by how much, but from a physics standpoint, it will be. Less enertia is required to spin that turbine which means theoretically, it will boost quicker. Still depends on engine displacement, airflow, A/R, housing size, and a whole bunch of other variables. I'm sure Jose, boostaholic, PSJ or Harlan (I know I missed others) can verify that. Not only that but why do the likes of Moran run BB turbos? Lord knows they have enough money in those cars so what's a bit more, but if they didn't have the need for a competative advantage, I'd doubt they'd spend the money.

Edit: It's also the reason that in the CART series, they started to build turbochargers that boosted sooner because of the series rules limiting them to 40" Hg of boost. Considering they used 2.65L v-8s that rev out to 16k, I doubt they had much of a problem with that, but on a roadcourse / street application, I'd like to have full TQ and/or boost as soon as possible. Only thing with drag racing is you can stall the car up, so you really don't have to worry about it.

And btw, you're above post still makes my point for me . Don't take offense, just think about the laws of physics next time.

KissMySSo1

iTrader: (2)

That would be a reason for a BB turbo. Yes reducing friction will help quicker spool. But why? Why would you want it to spool quicker. It is unusable power. When you race some one. Do you start at 3000rpm?
i didn't think so

PS you didn't read most post clearly.
I know what BB does and what it's used for.
It works great.
But i am saying on an LS1 there's no reason for it.

sb427f-car

To each there own, and you're post could be taken either way, I guess I took it in the sence that if you have a BB on a big cube v-8 that it wouldn't spool quicker. Sall good...just semantics

bryson

Less friction = less heat = less wear. I may have simplified that too much for it to hold true, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be.

Also, not all LS1s are automatics, and it helps to be able to get the turbo back up to speed between shifts. The RPM that a turbo spools at isn't everything. Even if you don't need the boost until the latter part of the RPM range, having better throttle response will help in a manual drag car or in a road course car. Also, it seems that since it takes less effort to spin the turbine wheel, the exhaust will have less of a restriction, as will the intake, creating an overall more efficient turbocharger. JMO