LPCWS6

I can't think of one reason why I would ever go with a supercharger over a turbo. I don't see how there is even a debate over issue. Turbo= and supercharger=

Juggernaut

iTrader: (1)

This question is like SO many others on this site, the answer is right there so easy to see...misinformation is a killer.

bradyb

Why don't you drive both cars, where are you located?
A STS kit solves a lot of the install and reliability issues associated with a front mount turbo system. You would be surprised at how many Vortech and Procharger kits have been pulled off Fbodies for a STS install. Turbos are much more effecient. Turbos make more power then superchargers period. I have never heard of a STS kit being pulled off a car for a Supercharger install.

Superchargers are great for guys who have no idea what they are doing but want to drop $5,000 K in their car to make it "faster". It's like the guy who buys the 2002 Mustang GT, it's got a V8 and it looks cool.

Turbo guys seem to be more educated about power adders and go for the turbo because of the performance advantages. It's like the guy who bought the 2002 Z28 because he knew how much more power the LS1 had compared to the GT. And generally speaking he knew the Ford sucked.

DamanSS

ok, well i am a 20 year old college student, my only time i will have to work on this would be after work a little bit of the summer, and i haven't done any mods this extensive before (i have taken engines out and stuff). My budget will not be huge, maybe $5000, and i will have my dads bodyshop tools at hand. I want a reliable, powerful additive that is low (at least the lower of the two) maintenance. Which, super or turbo, would suit me better?

DamanSS

OH YEA!!

SleeperSupra

First I think before you make a decision you should go to your local library and read Maximum Boost by Corkey Bell.

SleeperSupra

Turbocharger or Supercharger

Turbochargers are the Answer!

The Aftermarket age-old question endures, I am looking to boost my engine, do I supercharge? This is not a quick answer, but let's look at some things that make the turbocharger the most powerful and economical power adder for your engine.

A Turbocharger is:

More Versatile - A turbocharger is equally appropriate whether your goal is a mild street application or an all-out drag racer. A properly matched turbo can provide superb response and the ability to run boost levels that will push your limits.

So-called Lag - Modern high-flow wheels are smaller than ever to reduce inertia, and in combination with proper sizing give throttle response that has to be driven to be believed.

More Efficient - The turbo uses energy that is otherwise wasted through the tailpipe, where a supercharger has high parasitic drag since the power to drive it comes off of the crankshaft.

More Durable - A turbocharger only has one moving part, the rotating assembly. No pulleys, belts or geared transmissions. This makes for a less complicated device with fewer things to go wrong.

Faster- A turbocharged car is always faster than a similarly setup supercharged car because it has a much broader power band with more area under the curve.

DamanSS

Sleeper Supra, which underhood turbocharger setup would you say is the best setup for the LS1 camaro? Or do you advocate the STS? Also, what all would i need to buy other than what comes in the turbo kit to get the best reliability and power? Do you still need to buy different fuel injectors with a turbo?
Thanks!

mongse

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't call myself biased. I had a Procharger on my car for 3 years and switched to a turbo setup. I liked the Procharger, but there's absolutely no comparing it to a turbo as far as performance. Can't really comment on install because I did a lot more than just throw a pair of turbos on and go.

bryson

If I were looking to go FI on a LS1, I think I would go with a turbocharger. I have thought before that a supercharger would be pretty awesome, but after thinking some more, the turbocharger is what I prefer. I like turbochargers better because 12psi on a turbocharged engine is 12psi over a couple thousand RPM, while 12psi on a supercharged engine won't hit 12psi until the very end of your rpm range. If I were going to turbocharge an LS1, and I didn't want to make my headers and other hot parts, I would look at the Phamspeed kit without question. Look at the Phamspeed kit -- they use merge collectors and a ballbearing turbo, basically eliminating lag in a race situation, and making it close to not noticeable when being driven on the street. Making intercooler piping isn't difficult, and you will have to buy different injectors with either route you go. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the STS, but if you are looking for FI without spending a lot of money or time, then it is a kit well suited to you. If you want to do less custom work, buy a supercharger. You bolt on a bracket and the (usually) pre-made intercooler pipes, and you're ready to go. Whatever you do, good luck!
--Bryson

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

why turbo?

why not!! haha

SleeperSupra

I own a Supra so I am not too up on the LS1 kits...

It doesn't matter if you own a SC or a turbo you still want to keep the intake charge temperature nice and low so I would get an intercooled setup.

I don't know how much power your fuel system is good for.
It doesn’t matter if it is supercharged or turbocharged you will still need a fuel system that is up to the task.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

superchargers are:

-cleaner
-simpler
-cheaper
-more attention getting at idle because of the noise (lots of people want this)
-easier to tune (boost is always in the same spot at WOT vs rpm.. very predictable and calculateable in reguards to the stock computer)
-far better tip in throttle response (on a given engine comparo)

..remember i switched from supercharger (my lt1) to turbocharger... and i still do not think the above comments are argueable.

bradyb

For example:
'04 GTO running Procharger latest design at 8 PSI, 450 RWHP
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18942
"04 GTO running STS kit at 9 PSI, 630 RWHP

'02 Camaro SS 32,000 Miles running 5 PSI STS Turbo 416 rear wheel horsepower,
Same day, same dyno:
'02 Camaro SS 28,000 Miles running 7 PSI Procharger 405 Rear wheel horsepower,

A STS kit installs in about 3-6 hours in your garage and its cheaper then the Procharger??? Whats to decide here Buddy?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

And if you could give the FULL list of mods on both cars, and some before dyno runs, I'd give your argument some consideration.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

the procharged gto says it was on a mustang dyno.

wont believe 9psi = 630rwhp untill you show me... even race gas and agressive timing i doubt it. heads and cam too then sure maybe.

Wnts2Go10O

iTrader: (12)

itsa supa freak, supa freak...

TWS

iTrader: (63)

Nice, real nice. I probably speak for most of the SC guys here in saying your post was ignorant and needlessly provocative. Yeah, look at my sig. No wonder I take offense. I've done some homework, and know enough that if someone is all for one method of FI and totally bashing the other (like you), THEY, not the users of the "other" power adder, are the one who didn't do their homework.

I echo Mighty Mouse:

superchargers are:

-cleaner
-simpler
-cheaper
-more attention getting at idle because of the noise (lots of people want this)
-easier to tune (boost is always in the same spot at WOT vs rpm.. very predictable and calculateable in reguards to the stock computer)
-far better tip in throttle response (on a given engine comparo)

..remember i switched from supercharger (my lt1) to turbocharger... and i still do not think the above comments are argueable.

buschman

Spoken like a true ***. I'm quite educated in both setups. My main reasoning for going S/C over Turbo is downtime. I'm not building a race car or dyno queen. This is my fun car that I want to be able to kick some *** with. I like to tinker but when I want to cruise I don't want to wait till my "car is ready". It's not worth it to blow up an engine or have to endure 6 months of downtime to build/fab/install/or fix a turbo setup. For those new to FI, those who like to do their own work, and those that don't like downtime, I really don't see how you can beat the Blower.

Plus the attention thing Dave mentioned isn't a joke. Not that his jet doesn't turn heads until throttle.

Mike

Awake455

I have a few thoughts to add to this (who doesn't, right?).



The oil does need to be changed regularly, but you will totally destroy your engine due to excessive temperature loong before your oil in a self-contained ATI cooks itself. Extensive testing was done in dyno cells, on vehicles, and on special test cells concerning the temps of the oil. Even on a 454 1 ton truck pulling a heavy trailer across the desert with 100 deg F outside, the oil temp in the supercharger did not get over 200 degrees unless you shut the truck down and the heat soak from the engine warms up the supercharger. There is sufficient air moving through the engine bays & the supercharger itself to keep it from overheating, even in a marine application with hours of WOT operation.

Neither here nor there, but I thought I would clarify that.

My thinking is that the reliability of a centrifugal supercharger head unit vs a turbocharger, on an LS1 or other aftermarket setup, is a wash. Seals go bad on all of them. Bearings eventually wear on all of them. Dirt will kill either of them. The debate is in all of the stuff surrounding the compressors. The turbo headers/downpipe and the sc drive system.

Another point on the reliability of turbo systems. On an OEM setup, gas or diesel, countless hours were devoted to making sure that the manifolds and piping are rock solid. Let's face it, a cast iron turbo manifold is always going to be more solid over the years than a tubular header. Slip fit expansion joints and other means of compensating for expansion are included to the point of overkill. Aftermarket turbo system companies simply don't have the resources to spend months testing their systems in the worst possible conditions to make sure no problems will develop.

Plus, OEMs have the ability to design the car simultaneously with the turbocharged engine. They get to move most anything they want to wherever they want within reason. They have the ability to extensively test all components to make sure any added heat can be dealt with. Aftermarket turbo companies and supercharger companies are designing kits for vehicles that the factories never intended to have the forced induction tubing and components. On that front it is a little simpler to figure out how to get a supercharger system under the hood.

Everyone has their favorite. Assuming the same efficient intercooler setup, a properly selected centrifugal will need to run quite a bit more boost to keep up with a properly selected turbo. The rest is in the packaging.