MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

My thoughts exactly, and why I just can't convince myself to go with forced induction on my car.

buschman

Are you kidding? I think the basic idea is we all dig FI. Turbo guys arguing with Blower guys is like a mother and father(respectively ) arguing over who loves their baby more. No one said FI isn't the way to go. It's just we don't toally agree on which path is better.

Mike

mongse

iTrader: (2)

Whatchu say bout mah mama?

Let's make this simple...turbos make more power, superchargers are easier to install. Take your pick.

DamanSS

So, the phamspeed turbo kit for a LS1 seems to be the best turbo setup? What else would i need to buy seperate? And, what about downshifting in a manual, would i get instant boost?

sb427f-car

IC, blow off valve, intercooler piping, fuel system driveline upgrades, the latter two you'd need with a SC anyways.

Edit: Why don't you read the "Phamspeed kit installed" thread somewhere on the first page of threads today. It's probably down a couple lines.

DamanSS

How much would a complete phamspeed turbo setup with the intercooler, blowoff valve, injectors, in tank fuel pump cost?

sb427f-car

Do a search on various threads. But for the turbo & hot parts, 3400, an IC will probably be 2~300, pending, fuel system IE, dependant upon your power level and goals, couple hundred and up, programing/engine management, depends on dyno time or if you buy a tuning program like HP tunners or go with a stand alone ECM like a big stuff 3. In other words...it can be budgetable to , "how much have you spent/how fast ya run?"

Revelation222

In a race application, Turbo hands down.

In a daily-driven street set-setup, where easier, no fuss performance is whats mostly sought after...supercharger. Preferably, a twin screw. I mean look at the 03 Cobras (as much as I would hate to admit it ) and thats just a roots blower. Too bad I cant fit a twin on my Z28.

Guess thats why I'll be purchasing a used Z06 soon. A kenne-bell 2.2 or 2.4 on a Ls! will be sick. Talk about power under the curve, or average HP?

I suppose it is still a pipe dream but they said "its in the works" whatever that means.

All in all, go with what you are comfortable with, and you will be happiest.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

Thought add a few comments from an old hotrodder.I think for shere looks and sound nothing beats a nice 6.71 sticking thru a hood on a nice big fat chevy rat!! Intimidation..crazy power down low..no real lag on roots /screw types.

I had a 6.71 car once.Attention getting like you would'nt believe.fantastic sound,no real complaints.But they dont fit under our car.Well they might have a roots,screw type sooner or later and they do fit the vettes with hood mods.

Centrificals.Had ride in buddies ati car.I didn't personally like the gear rattle sound it made at idle.It sounded good off idle and was pretty quick,it was otherwise near stock lt1.It also had the usual slipping belt problem and he blew up his motor at 8psi or so when he tightened up the belt.Also the power is more controllable and while the car puts out less power than turbos at lower revs and has less area under the curve in quartermile or high speed highway runs it works pretty well and can still incinerate street tires pretty nicely revving it up off the lights.Its main disadvantage is roll ons in like second gear and you have to gear down in higher gears on the highway to get your max power happing.

I have a turbo car now..92 awd talon with big aftermarket turbo.It builds boost no problem off the line if you use a two step..I have one and they make them for almost all cars.You also have to downshift the turbo a bit if you are in a higher gear on the highway but not near as much as a centrifical
since my turbo is at full spool around 3500 and even lower turbo spools are possible on bigger engines like v8s.To eliminate lag you do a quick downshift .
In second gear you do get some lag around town so a second gear roll on can not be that great and third in town would be stupid without a downshift.
You can get faster spool time several ways.Open up intake and exhaust more,
use lighter flywheel,build a stroker,use ball bearing over standard bearing..

The new turbos especially the ball bearing can spool very fast.
My car is not hard to tune.Buddy always says it will be but he's a blower boy.
I don't think factory would have put turbos on all these cars if they were so freakin hard to tune.
I like changing boost quickly so I can dial it down in bad winter weather or slipper conditions with turn of a dial.I can run lower boost to be easier on things like the rear end or clutch or whatever and still dial it up if the engine can take it in a second.Its much easier than swapping pulleys.And belt slippage can be a pain in the butt.
I don't think a turbo install is all that hard.A bit harder than a super but not that bad and of course the sts are simple installation.

I was going to go with an sts but they aren't that cheap when you start adding in things that they don't come with.So decided I think to go with a front mount mabye phamspeed kit.I can easily fab up the cold side.

I do think of course that all fi is still cool.Blower,turbo both have their pros and cons.For me in my ls1 turbo is obvious choice.Own a fast turbo car and you will be forever hooked.Its like nitrous that never goes empty.

But a 6.71 rat will always get my heart going.Just too bad that motor was in a 1967 Old hearse company demo car that weighed 8000 pounds and could still waste many muscle cars that went up against it.

And where is the ati or vortechs cheap.They are not cheap at all.Siimple install..well the ati don't need oil tapped into the pan but thats about it.Its not that simple.Not saying its crazy complicated either.And reliable have to side with turbos..many many turbo cars well over 100,000 miles on the original turbos.And semis go way more than that.

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Heres my view so far on PRICE if you are worried about spending ONLY $5K.
If you are only wanting around 450rwhp then a blower kit is what your looking for. The hardest part of the kit it taking the stock crank bolt out and replacing it and be sure its tight enough. On any kit having enough fuel is very important. A set of 42# injectors ($300), Fuel Pump Walbro 340 intank ($120) The biggest thing i cant stress enough is tuning..... TUNING, TUNING...... Tuning is the key to keeping a stock shortblock togeather. You are going to want to tune on the dyno with a wideband to be sure your air to fuel is right on. Tuning is at least $500 at most places.... i know mine was $500. The BASIC ATI kit is around $4200. I know in the long run i spent alot more when just trying to see 8 psi..... so i had to go with the SDCE spring tensioned 8 rib setup...... So right there with the basic ATI kit with fuel and tuning your at $5120.
Now the Turbo route....... i sold my ATI setup with the SDCE spring tensioned 8 rib setup and a FMIC for my new Turbo setup..... now $$$ spent is more but in the end it will have made ALOT more power then my D1-SC head unit could of made...... Not a bad kit, but i wanted more.
Thats my .02
Kyle

sb427f-car

There are always gear and beltdrives for camshafts to help with that supercharger idle sound , btw...check your PM in a min. (Does anyone make an LSx gear/belt drive, I just haven't seen one listed with my own eys, I'm sure they do exisit)

TWS

iTrader: (63)

Well said Mike. I see pros and cons with each, but I like them both. I felt that anyone totally bashing one while praising the other hadn't done their homework.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

Someone Needs To Do A Supercharger/turbo Combo. There Was A Guy That Did That In The Import Circuit Years Ago, It Was Hilarious.

DamanSS

HAHA, thats ironic, i was thinking about that the other day. Hey, if they can do twin turbo, or twin superchargers, why not mix?

bradyb

I saw a set up at Sema on a Mini Copper S with turbo and SC. It worked well supposedly and helped to squeeze out some more power out of that little motor.

sb427f-car

Read an article once in "Turbo" magazine, caters more to the import crowd but had an interesting article on how to read a compressor map, about "Compound Charging" or boosting boosted air. It's a very fascinating idea, and really is an incredible way to make power. In this article, they took a beefed up short block Toyota MR2 spyder and slapped a Jackson Racing SC on it, ran the numbers @ the wheels and then added a turbo kit on after it. The turbo was ICed I believe the JRSC was not. With the cooled air charge from the turbo, which was already boosted @ something like 10#s, pumped into the roots style blower, where it was re-compressed you ended up with a multiplier effect. Also, considering the air from the turbo was intercooled, the additional compressing of air by the roots blower was much more effective compared temp. wise to what ambient air was. In other words, boosting boosted and intercooled air is very efficent. The ITATs were still lower than ambient and you didn't need to worry about running a bigger blower to keep the ITATs cooler, and it allowed for a more favorible turbo selection (I forget why though on that one, perhaps someone with more knowledge or experience could speculate as to why that is?).

F8L Z71

How were IATs lower than ambient?? You can't get below ambient unless you run nitrous or methanol or have a ton of ICE in the cooler.

Revelation222

That is a great quote. Never looked at it that way before.

That should be on one of the LS1tech shirts.

"A turbo is nitrous that never goes empty."

Thumbs up, Old School.

sb427f-car

You're correct, misspoke, meant to say under hood air temps. Ma bad.

F8L Z71

Damn, I was hoping you were right. That would be a cool mod. LOL