Boost conspiracy!!!! Come in boost heads.
Thread Starter
8 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
Boost conspiracy!!!! Come in boost heads. Okay I see a ton of people say “and it was only on XX psi of boost” and normally followed by “cant wait to see it at full boost”.
So here is my question to you “Booster’s” on here. I would like whomever to explain to me how they know a motor will make more power with more power by increasing the boost of the turbo/supercharger?
I am asking this to prove a point, so anyone feel free to chime in.
So here is my question to you “Booster’s” on here. I would like whomever to explain to me how they know a motor will make more power with more power by increasing the boost of the turbo/supercharger?
I am asking this to prove a point, so anyone feel free to chime in.
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Okay I see a ton of people say “and it was only on XX psi of boost” and normally followed by “cant wait to see it at full boost”.
So here is my question to you “Booster’s” on here. I would like whomever to explain to me how they know a motor will make more power with more power by increasing the boost of the turbo/supercharger?
I am asking this to prove a point, so anyone feel free to chime in.
So here is my question to you “Booster’s” on here. I would like whomever to explain to me how they know a motor will make more power with more power by increasing the boost of the turbo/supercharger?
I am asking this to prove a point, so anyone feel free to chime in.
only thing i can think of is if you are continuously changing the atmospheric pressure being shoved into the motor, it will combust more air/fuel which is what power is made of...
i could be off, but its just a guess.
No one knows what power a motor will make until they run it on a dyno. If the boost pressure increases then air into the cylinder increases and with extra fuel you can conceptually make more power. That is assuming the gas can handle the extra pressure without detonating. I am sure air turbulence could be a factor on power output also.
Thread Starter
8 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by strokedls1
No one knows what power a motor will make until they run it on a dyno. If the boost pressure increases then air into the cylinder increases and with extra fuel you can conceptually make more power. That is assuming the gas can handle the extra pressure without detonating. I am sure air turbulence could be a factor on power output also.
True.. So lets rule out the A/F ratio and tune up from this equation. For the matter of this conversation lets accept that the person tuning the car would adjust for the increase in air into the motor as needed.
I think I know where he is coming from, a motor can only take so much air forced into it. And boost is a measurment of backpressure in the intake, so if you are making 15lbs of boost and that is all the motor can take, and you up the boost to 20lbs you are just compressing the backed up air more, and heating it up more.
I have no idea if this is correct or not I am a NITROUS guy
I have no idea if this is correct or not I am a NITROUS guy
unlike a nitrous motor (there is a limit to how much nitrous you can cram in for a given displacemnt) you basically increase the VE of the motor as you boost it.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple
assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.
Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple
assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by BTL FED
I think I know where he is coming from, a motor can only take so much air forced into it. And boost is a measurment of backpressure in the intake, so if you are making 15lbs of boost and that is all the motor can take, and you up the boost to 20lbs you are just compressing the backed up air more, and heating it up more.
I have no idea if this is correct or not I am a NITROUS guy
I have no idea if this is correct or not I am a NITROUS guy
No, you hit the nail on the head. It is not nessecarily about boost but it is about air flow. The basic engine function (air pump) hasn't changed. The ability to flow air and fuel in and exhaust gasses out is still there. Turbo and supercharging are still limited by the same laws of physics that presure systems follow. Compressing air heats it up, but at a higher pressure you can make it flow faster in a smaller space. With in the limits of the compressor, be it belt or exhaust driven, it can only flow so much @ a certain PSI before it hits a choke or "surge" limit. If a combination makes some # @ 10#s of boost, yet the theoretical efficency limit is @ 20#s of boost, then yes, you'd still have room to go.
Trending Topics
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by y2khawk
unlike a nitrous motor (there is a limit to how much nitrous you can cram in for a given displacemnt) you basically increase the VE of the motor as you boost it.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.
Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple
assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
Feeling better? LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
8 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
Yup. It’s not about how much boost you can "make". It’s about how efficient the motor is. Turbo/supercharged motors are all based off efficiency, getting air in and air out. You cannot force more air into the motor then the motor is able to push/pull out. So when it comes down to it, your volume of air going in, cannot be much greater then the volume of air going out.
You can not take a motor, slap a charger of some sort on it and crank the waste gate closed and think it will make more power then it does at XX PSI of boost. A charged motor can slow down if you jam more air into it then its able to handle. At some point if you push to hard, something will give.
Now we run a co2 bottle on our waste gate to regulate boost pressure, when we put XX #’s of co2 bottle pressure on the waste gate to keep the gate closed and gain boost, we know we are at the max limit to the motors capabilities. So we might be tapped out at 25# of boost, which might be our sweet spot for the motor. Yet the turbo is capable of going up to 35# of boost.
My point, you can’t just crank the waste gate closed and think you will go faster. Boost is not magic, you can’t just put more boost to the motor and think you will go faster. Just cause your boost gauge will go higher does not mean you can keep cranking on the waste gate till you break the gauge
You can not take a motor, slap a charger of some sort on it and crank the waste gate closed and think it will make more power then it does at XX PSI of boost. A charged motor can slow down if you jam more air into it then its able to handle. At some point if you push to hard, something will give.
Now we run a co2 bottle on our waste gate to regulate boost pressure, when we put XX #’s of co2 bottle pressure on the waste gate to keep the gate closed and gain boost, we know we are at the max limit to the motors capabilities. So we might be tapped out at 25# of boost, which might be our sweet spot for the motor. Yet the turbo is capable of going up to 35# of boost.
My point, you can’t just crank the waste gate closed and think you will go faster. Boost is not magic, you can’t just put more boost to the motor and think you will go faster. Just cause your boost gauge will go higher does not mean you can keep cranking on the waste gate till you break the gauge
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Yup. It’s not about how much boost you can "make". It’s about how efficient the motor is. Turbo/supercharged motors are all based off efficiency, getting air in and air out. You cannot force more air into the motor then the motor is able to push/pull out. So when it comes down to it, your volume of air going in, cannot be much greater then the volume of air going out.
You can not take a motor, slap a charger of some sort on it and crank the waste gate closed and think it will make more power then it does at XX PSI of boost. A charged motor can slow down if you jam more air into it then its able to handle. At some point if you push to hard, something will give.
Now we run a co2 bottle on our waste gate to regulate boost pressure, when we put XX #’s of co2 bottle pressure on the waste gate to keep the gate closed and gain boost, we know we are at the max limit to the motors capabilities. So we might be tapped out at 25# of boost, which might be our sweet spot for the motor. Yet the turbo is capable of going up to 35# of boost.
My point, you can’t just crank the waste gate closed and think you will go faster. Boost is not magic, you can’t just put more boost to the motor and think you will go faster. Just cause your boost gauge will go higher does not mean you can keep cranking on the waste gate till you break the gauge
You can not take a motor, slap a charger of some sort on it and crank the waste gate closed and think it will make more power then it does at XX PSI of boost. A charged motor can slow down if you jam more air into it then its able to handle. At some point if you push to hard, something will give.
Now we run a co2 bottle on our waste gate to regulate boost pressure, when we put XX #’s of co2 bottle pressure on the waste gate to keep the gate closed and gain boost, we know we are at the max limit to the motors capabilities. So we might be tapped out at 25# of boost, which might be our sweet spot for the motor. Yet the turbo is capable of going up to 35# of boost.
My point, you can’t just crank the waste gate closed and think you will go faster. Boost is not magic, you can’t just put more boost to the motor and think you will go faster. Just cause your boost gauge will go higher does not mean you can keep cranking on the waste gate till you break the gauge
So, if you knew, why did you ask? Or did you have a bet with someone for a steak dinner, as that seems to be the wage of choice around here . Thread Starter
8 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
Oh well I have my reasons, but I felt it was time for some schooling for the people who may NOT be "in the know" on how boost works
Here are some video's of the Outlaw 10.5 car I work/crew on for all you boosters to enjoy.
Video Link 1
Video Link 2
Video Link 3
Here are some video's of the Outlaw 10.5 car I work/crew on for all you boosters to enjoy.
Video Link 1
Video Link 2
Video Link 3
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 0
From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Oh well I have my reasons, but I felt it was time for some schooling for the people who may NOT be "in the know" on how boost works
Here are some video's of the Outlaw 10.5 car I work/crew on for all you boosters to enjoy.
Video Link 1
Video Link 2
Video Link 3
Here are some video's of the Outlaw 10.5 car I work/crew on for all you boosters to enjoy.
Video Link 1
Video Link 2
Video Link 3
I'll check the vids later, but sweet and thanks for stopping by.
Originally Posted by y2khawk
unlike a nitrous motor (there is a limit to how much nitrous you can cram in for a given displacemnt) you basically increase the VE of the motor as you boost it.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.
Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
In simple terms you can cram air in until something breaks
Sure it's not linear and there are efficiency hits, but you increase the air usage of the pump(engine) as you increase the inlet pressure. More air in = more power out, simple
assuming you can fuel it, light it, and contain it.Now there are some caveats on XX boost. For a given engine size and pressure levels there a limits to what can be achieved. You are ultimately limited on how good the pump(engine) is before you breathe on it.
Don't forget to add in the capability of the pressure source, that's another story of it's own.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Isn't boost as its measured in lbs just resistance to flow? Seems to me like boost is all the air that ISN't flowing through the heads since its reegistered before the heads. 10psi on good heads is obviously moving more air that 15psi on stock heads. Seems pointless to compair boost levels.
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Worth, TX
Actually, if your motor isnt that effecient but your TURBO is, it will generally make more power as you crank up the boost, assuming the motor is built to take it. More air is still more air.
Thread Starter
8 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by sb427f-car
Yall the current 10.5 record holders?? Definately one of the coolest "street" car classes out there. What else on the specs (unless you were featured in one of the mags recently).
we were the record holders at the time of the video, and will be soon again
417Ci SBF
105mm Single
Power Glide
33X10.5W
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
From: "Tr"Asheville
For our applications here with street driven cars you can always bet on the boost calculation to be pretty accurate for our HP levels. For instance if your LS1 car makes 310rwhp (pretty much stock) and you add 5lb's of boost to it (assuming everything being equal and not having any hinderances) then you can calculate that it will make roughly 415rwhp; these numbers are based on the fact that if you double atmospheric pressure (14.7:1) you double horsepower. Thus 5/14.7 = 34% gain in power equating to 415rwhp.
-Sly
-Sly
Originally Posted by Outlaw
we were the record holders at the time of the video, and will be soon again
417Ci SBF
105mm Single
Power Glide
33X10.5W
417Ci SBF
105mm Single
Power Glide
33X10.5W
Anyway, It stands to reason that pushing a car past its efficiency (in terms of engine and turbo) will result in deminished returns. However what force is actually keeping the engine from making any more power unless its so far out of it efficiency that the turbo now becomes an exhaust blockage costing more HP than the extra air it crams in. I just dont get what brick wall the engine hits as you crank up the boooooooooost.