Twin Turbo C5
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From: Forced Induction Heaven
Originally Posted by 2001-WS6
No offense Shinobi, but people that "know" turbo cars don't pimp dyno numbers by saying they ran on the "most conservative dyno" around. It's like claiming more power from a Type-R sticker. That is "fluff" information by any standard. 
A dyno is just a tuning tool and everyone all ready knows that different dynos will give you a different number under all the same conditions. Claiming to know what that difference might be on any given day would be pretty silly.
The PTK kit may turnout to be a good option for some and you may have a nice setup in your car now, but until it's got some track times and the MPH to back it up the dyno numbers, the sheet is still just a nice piece of paper.
I don't have to see the dyno sheets, or own a car with the TTi X kit to know how well they run. I've watched a few of them run at the track and on the street. I've lined up against them at the track. That's a good enough test for me to speak with adequate experience on the matter. I'll look forward to the opportunity to speak highly of the PTK kit once I see one in action too.
Rick
A dyno is just a tuning tool and everyone all ready knows that different dynos will give you a different number under all the same conditions. Claiming to know what that difference might be on any given day would be pretty silly.
The PTK kit may turnout to be a good option for some and you may have a nice setup in your car now, but until it's got some track times and the MPH to back it up the dyno numbers, the sheet is still just a nice piece of paper.
I don't have to see the dyno sheets, or own a car with the TTi X kit to know how well they run. I've watched a few of them run at the track and on the street. I've lined up against them at the track. That's a good enough test for me to speak with adequate experience on the matter.
I'll look forward to the opportunity to speak highly of the PTK kit once I see one in action too. Rick
But you must have only read what you wanted to out of my post or you have some other agenda. It appears that you only focused in on a very small part of my post and felt that you could make some valid statement from a fraction of what was being communicated.
Thats really too bad because I clearly stated the facts surrounding the dyno session. If you look at one of the last parts of my post, you will see that I mention that the dyno's main importance was for TUNING, and I was not "pimping" dyno numbers when I said that.
Everybody comes on here and reports dyno numbers, a lot of times before they go to the track. I also don't remember making any direct comparisons to any other kits. I realize that sometimes its easier to skip to the end when reading a long post. I only wished you would have, and then you would have seen that I agreed about the dyno stuff.
Originally Posted by Nickn20
some food for thought, what if you lined up with grandpa and he runs 15s with his 700 rwhp c5, that is really a good representation of power huh? 
a car should dyno the same corrected numbers also. I like number becuase that is potential, it takes out driver error, traction, suspension, you know you have the power, then you just gotta figure out how to get it to the ground
a car should dyno the same corrected numbers also. I like number becuase that is potential, it takes out driver error, traction, suspension, you know you have the power, then you just gotta figure out how to get it to the ground A good point, and it is for that reason I left the car tuned for 9#s and not 14 or 16#s. I can get way more traction off @9#s then 14 or 16#s. Its about the enjoyment of driving. The higher dyno numbers were just for R&D. I am not going to put a solid rear axle in my car...just to run 1/4 mile. I will leave that for the serious drag racers who want to back 1/2 their C5s or for the Fbody crowd. I will run my car on street tires though this month or next month and report back mph.
As you can see Rick was having difficulties reading the day he posted that...must have been hung over or something...it happens.
Actually I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, until I saw you were from Michigan..I know whats giong on now.
Should have figured out when you mentioned the TTiX kit that you had an agenda. Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; May 16, 2005 at 04:38 PM.
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From: Lake Orion, MI
Originally Posted by Nickn20
some food for thought, what if you lined up with grandpa and he runs 15s with his 700 rwhp c5, that is really a good representation of power huh? a car should dyno the same corrected numbers also. I like number becuase that is potential, it takes out driver error, traction, suspension, you know you have the power, then you just gotta figure out how to get it to the ground
a car should dyno the same corrected numbers also. I like number becuase that is potential, it takes out driver error, traction, suspension, you know you have the power, then you just gotta figure out how to get it to the ground 
The Vettes are getting good kit development now with some nice options. I'm just reporting what I've seen in real life usage even though I don't "own a Vette".
HP on the dyno is good to know but the MPH on a pass does the same thing with a bit more taste of reality to it.
You are right on the potential but potential unrealized is not much fun. I'm in the tranfer to the ground stage now. So I understand looking at the light of the ET Treain at the end of the tunnel.
Rick
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Originally Posted by mdhmi
There are many more than 7 or 8 Stage X kits in production. Keep in mind that not everyone with a turbo uses online car forums..
The State X was out last year. I personally know several people with the kit.. All of them are happy with it..
I know the guy with the Stage X that did the 137 MPH pass mentioned above. That is a 346 ci motor with very average 270 CFM flowing heads and a mild turbo cam. That was his first and only pass of the day (kicked out as he doesn't have a roll cage). That pass was also medium boost (13ish).. The Stage X will flow 18 #'s on a 346 ci!.
Regards,
Mark
The State X was out last year. I personally know several people with the kit.. All of them are happy with it..
I know the guy with the Stage X that did the 137 MPH pass mentioned above. That is a 346 ci motor with very average 270 CFM flowing heads and a mild turbo cam. That was his first and only pass of the day (kicked out as he doesn't have a roll cage). That pass was also medium boost (13ish).. The Stage X will flow 18 #'s on a 346 ci!.
Regards,
Mark
I heard over at corvetteforum that a TTi X went KABOOM recently. I would be nervous if I was running this package.
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From: Lake Orion, MI
Ohhh I'm sorry for my reading skills and confussion:
"Plus by design it should make more power than any kit available. I was getting irritated over on the CF forum. You have people making recommendations on Turbo kits, and they have never even owned one...they have merely went for a ride in somebody else's or have jumped on somebody's band wagon."
Looks like a direct comparison to every kit and not just one in particular then. I could see where I might have been confused though.
It also looks like the only valid opinion on a topic comes from someone that owns a given car and a kit in a discussion? I'm pretty sure we all take advice from people that might not have owned our same combo somewhere along the way. I know I've gone to people that knew more than me for good advice.
I'm not sure what agenda I have other than going fast. I'm pretty sure everyone else here enjoys doing it too and that it's not just a Michigan thing.
Rick
"Plus by design it should make more power than any kit available. I was getting irritated over on the CF forum. You have people making recommendations on Turbo kits, and they have never even owned one...they have merely went for a ride in somebody else's or have jumped on somebody's band wagon."
Looks like a direct comparison to every kit and not just one in particular then. I could see where I might have been confused though.
It also looks like the only valid opinion on a topic comes from someone that owns a given car and a kit in a discussion? I'm pretty sure we all take advice from people that might not have owned our same combo somewhere along the way. I know I've gone to people that knew more than me for good advice.
I'm not sure what agenda I have other than going fast. I'm pretty sure everyone else here enjoys doing it too and that it's not just a Michigan thing.
Rick
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From: Lake Orion, MI
Originally Posted by disco
I heard over at corvetteforum that a TTi X went KABOOM recently. I would be nervous if I was running this package.
Have you ever spun and seen the Rev Limiter shifting into fourth on a slippery track? Then coasted from the 1000' mark to a 128mph pass? Then you know what power looks and feels like.
I was the next car down the track that broke loose at the 1/8th on slicks. So I can confirm the conditions where not pretty since I bailed to check my shorts in the same lane while I coasted to the lights.
Rick
Originally Posted by Nickn20
what if you lined up with grandpa and he runs 15s with his 700 rwhp c5
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
Actually I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, until I saw you were from Michigan..I know whats giong on now. Should have figured out when you mentioned the TTiX kit that you had an agenda.
Should have figured out when you mentioned the TTiX kit that you had an agenda.
Originally Posted by disco
I heard over at corvetteforum that a TTi X went KABOOM recently.
Regards,
Mark
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From: Forced Induction Heaven
Originally Posted by 2001-WS6
Ohhh I'm sorry for my reading skills and confussion:
Rick
Rick
Look I don't know you and you don't know me and its that simple. I have owned plenty of fast cars, bikes, motorcycles, off road vehicles and have wrenched on them myself for the most part.
My only interaction with you, has been by your response. At which point in time you focussed in on 1/2 of my post and left out the part the key portion that you ended up trying to make as the justification for your post. If you didn't read the whole post, its no big deal, and its ok. I just directed your attention to it, if you can't handle that, it is clearly your problem...not mine.
I am not going to argue over the internet its useless, go get yourself a turbo kit and tell us all about it, or continue just too watch other people's cars and tell us about it...whatever you like
Originally Posted by mdhmi
Kevin - not everyone from Michigan who has had a positive experience with TTi has a sinister agenda.
Regards,
Mark
Regards,
Mark
So yeah not everybody..not you for sure. I wish the best of luck with your TTix kit, it is a great kit.
Originally Posted by mdhmi
That wasn't the X kit that went Kaboom it was the motor. When the motor grenaded it damaged one of the turbos. That has nothing to do with TTi.
Regards,
Mark
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; May 16, 2005 at 10:14 PM.
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
go get yourself a turbo kit and tell us all about it, or continue just too watch other people's cars and tell us about it...
Rick has a 422 TA with a single turbo. Just as an FYI.
As for my turbo build-up - it's just a street car that I like to putz around town with. No real racing. I figure keep it under 550 rwhp and maybe the driveline and bottom-end will stand up?.
Cheers,
Mark
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From: Forced Induction Heaven
Originally Posted by mdhmi
Kevin,
Rick has a 422 TA with a single turbo. Just as an FYI.
As for my turbo build-up - it's just a street car that I like to putz around town with. No real racing. I figure keep it under 550 rwhp and maybe the driveline and bottom-end will stand up?.
Cheers,
Mark
Rick has a 422 TA with a single turbo. Just as an FYI.
As for my turbo build-up - it's just a street car that I like to putz around town with. No real racing. I figure keep it under 550 rwhp and maybe the driveline and bottom-end will stand up?.
Cheers,
Mark
Well hell than he can comment all he wants...I guess he just didn't see the part of my thread that said a good portion of what his response did.
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From: Lake Orion, MI
I apologize for the distraction to the original poster and to Shinobi if he felt razzed by the posts. I just like to see the numbers at the track.
I never get bent by anything that's ever posted so don't worry about me because it's all in fun. My little turbo street car get's the kids to school on time and the ice cream home before it melts. It's hasn't seen a dyno yet but the track seems to like the car just fine.
Rick
I never get bent by anything that's ever posted so don't worry about me because it's all in fun.
My little turbo street car get's the kids to school on time and the ice cream home before it melts. It's hasn't seen a dyno yet but the track seems to like the car just fine. Rick
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Originally Posted by mdhmi
To answer the original posters question.. About a turn-key TT for $8,500.. The answer is no.
You will need to add fuel upgrades (injectors, pump, etc) + drive line. I don't think you're going to be joining the TT club for under $15K. Sorry
Mark
You will need to add fuel upgrades (injectors, pump, etc) + drive line. I don't think you're going to be joining the TT club for under $15K. Sorry
Mark
The answer is YES!
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From: Forced Induction Heaven
Originally Posted by 2001-WS6
I apologize for the distraction to the original poster and to Shinobi if he felt razzed by the posts. I just like to see the numbers at the track.
I never get bent by anything that's ever posted so don't worry about me because it's all in fun. My little turbo street car get's the kids to school on time and the ice cream home before it melts. It's hasn't seen a dyno yet but the track seems to like the car just fine.
Rick
I never get bent by anything that's ever posted so don't worry about me because it's all in fun.
My little turbo street car get's the kids to school on time and the ice cream home before it melts. It's hasn't seen a dyno yet but the track seems to like the car just fine. Rick
No razzle just dazzle. I just wanted to make sure that you understood that I place the value in the dyno mainly for tuning and fun. Its a great starting place to get things dialed in. It will also be nice to see what MPH I get on street tires. I can measure the power by MPH.
I am glad your Turbo works too. I also use mine to drive one of the kids to school..but it is rare because when I do, it can only be one at a time, which means the wife has to take the other one in her car.
How did you tune your car? Data Logging with EFI live? or what means did you use to tune up if you didn't use a dyno?
Thanks
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From: Lake Orion, MI
The car was tuned on the street using HP Tuner for logging tied into the AEM Wideband for input. Makes identifying the areas to work on quick and straight forward for the tuner. Then we use my good old LS1Edit to tune it because I haven't gotten around to converting to HP Tuner yet.
We did about 5 days of cruising to get our 500 miles of mixed time on the streets and the highway. Typically 15-25 mile trips to break the motor with some good heat cycles. We did two data logging and tuning sessions to get the base line and then a few hours to get the WOT tuned before track day.
All the testing confrimed we had a nice conservative A/F and no KR. Then on the 6th day we hit the track.
Rick
We did about 5 days of cruising to get our 500 miles of mixed time on the streets and the highway. Typically 15-25 mile trips to break the motor with some good heat cycles. We did two data logging and tuning sessions to get the base line and then a few hours to get the WOT tuned before track day.
All the testing confrimed we had a nice conservative A/F and no KR. Then on the 6th day we hit the track.
Rick
Teching In
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Boost from a Twin Turbo doesn't have to be any higher than from a single turbo. It usually spools up quicker and gives allot of room to increase power later on.
We've seen no problems with the stock LS1s up to about 550 RWHP.
Keep the power levels below that and you should have no problems at all.
We've seen no problems with the stock LS1s up to about 550 RWHP.
Keep the power levels below that and you should have no problems at all.
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From: Forced Induction Heaven
Originally Posted by Vaka-Mon
so how well do the stock C5 internals hold up under the twin turbo boost......would you guys recommend swapping the stocks for some forged internals
Now as for the stock Hyperuetetic Pistons, they do not expand and are very brittle. They do not withstand detonation at all...maybe once if your lucky..but I have lunched the stock motor on high boost 13#...it was because of detonation..not boost. Its kind of tricky, people say how much boost can I run??? Its more about controlling detonation. The thing is at higher boost levels, the cylinder pressure is much higher, so if you get detonation it is compounded. The ringlands crack like crackers. So at a minimum I would switch out the pistons...but you don't have too. It depends on how much power you want to run.
Simply lowering your CR with heads cc volumne can give you a desirable setup to run boost on pump gas. You can also add an Alky/Water injections system to help control detonation.
If you are going to crack the motor open to install forged pistons you might as well replace the rods. Good rods (Eagle) can be had for like $400, or you can spend as much as $1200.00. Just depends, I used Lunati Pro Billet Forged Rods 6.125", Manley is another good rod.
If you are going to run 9# of boost, I would just throw some large chamber heads on the motor and call it a day. Gotta have a good tune no matter what.
Forged parts = insurance. But there is still a limit to the policy.
