What are your dimensions for FMIC
06-04-2005, 08:28 PM
#22
NoGo, Why? Provide specifics to why you "think" the obx is bad?
PSJ, Going off nogo's post? If not shed some specifics too.
An open and honest question here, how much more different can you make a bar and plate core? What makes Griffins flow that much better than OBX bar and plate core? I really would like to know.
KP who has my old D1-SC setup with my OBX FMIC is doing quite well, 10.4@130 thats banging on PSJ's track times and his 7XX unlocked Th400 RWHP...so i'm thinking it's doing quite well on his car, he'll hit nines soon. The same set up did wonderfully on mine. With my ATI twins, I was stuck at 12psi. With the FMIC conversion and 3 inch SS IC tubing, I was seeing 15psi all the time. I also broke into the 120s, my old set up I was stuck at 117mph. I got my best times with the OBX conversion and nothing else, the best run being a 11.1@124.95mph with a DA of 7900ft.
For the money and availability it can't be beat, don't have to wait for weeks on end for a "high quality, high priced, big name" FMIC to be made.
My IATs were always awesome on my ATI set up with the obx, recovery time were also excellent as well, by the time I had made it back from the timeslip booth my IATs were already at ambient temps.
Nitro, specs for the OBX are:
High flow large core
*
High power handle supported up to 800hp
*
Big inlet 76mm or 3"
*
High efficiency bar and plate core
*
Low pressure drop 0.2psi at 15psi
Dimensions Details:
* Core Length : 24" (600mm)
* Core Height: 12" (300mm)
* Core Thickness: 3" (76mm)
* Inlet Size: 3" o/d (76mm)
* Outlet Size: 3" o/d (76mm)
* "End to End" Length: 32" (800mm)
You can't assume the boost loss is due to his intercooler, His IC tube routing can be excessively long, twisted or restricted....or has a boost leak, belt slip(if s/c'ed) the list goes on.
For the majority of the cars here on the board, I think the OBX will be more than enough for em. For the all out race cars, sure go with griffin, why skimp if you already spent that much money for a 800-1000+hp car, but then I'd lose the IC altogether and go straight meth.
PSJ, Going off nogo's post? If not shed some specifics too.
An open and honest question here, how much more different can you make a bar and plate core? What makes Griffins flow that much better than OBX bar and plate core? I really would like to know.
KP who has my old D1-SC setup with my OBX FMIC is doing quite well, 10.4@130 thats banging on PSJ's track times and his 7XX unlocked Th400 RWHP...so i'm thinking it's doing quite well on his car, he'll hit nines soon. The same set up did wonderfully on mine. With my ATI twins, I was stuck at 12psi. With the FMIC conversion and 3 inch SS IC tubing, I was seeing 15psi all the time. I also broke into the 120s, my old set up I was stuck at 117mph. I got my best times with the OBX conversion and nothing else, the best run being a 11.1@124.95mph with a DA of 7900ft.
For the money and availability it can't be beat, don't have to wait for weeks on end for a "high quality, high priced, big name" FMIC to be made.
My IATs were always awesome on my ATI set up with the obx, recovery time were also excellent as well, by the time I had made it back from the timeslip booth my IATs were already at ambient temps.
Nitro, specs for the OBX are:
High flow large core
*
High power handle supported up to 800hp
*
Big inlet 76mm or 3"
*
High efficiency bar and plate core
*
Low pressure drop 0.2psi at 15psi
Dimensions Details:
* Core Length : 24" (600mm)
* Core Height: 12" (300mm)
* Core Thickness: 3" (76mm)
* Inlet Size: 3" o/d (76mm)
* Outlet Size: 3" o/d (76mm)
* "End to End" Length: 32" (800mm)
You can't assume the boost loss is due to his intercooler, His IC tube routing can be excessively long, twisted or restricted....or has a boost leak, belt slip(if s/c'ed) the list goes on.
For the majority of the cars here on the board, I think the OBX will be more than enough for em. For the all out race cars, sure go with griffin, why skimp if you already spent that much money for a 800-1000+hp car, but then I'd lose the IC altogether and go straight meth.
06-04-2005, 09:21 PM
#24
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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I wouldn't so blithely compare kp's setup to mine. I went 136mph at the same raceweight with belt slippage. I was hitting 17psi on the dyno last year and this year I am hittting 21psi.
I've read the obx ones are not as well constructed.
I've read the obx ones are not as well constructed.
06-04-2005, 09:46 PM
#25
The end tank design of the OBX does not instill flow through the entire core. The inlet and outlet should be offset to promote equal cooling and flow over the intercooler core.
You can't rate how good an intercooler is by pressure drop. The dP across the intercooler just indicates how well it flows. I can go grab a piece of straight pipe that will outflow any intercooler on the market. Sure the piece of straight pipe flows great, but it doesn't cool worth a damn........the same thing can be said about alot of high flow intercoolers. The whole point of an intercooler is too cool, not necessarily flow fantastic (all though it is a nice bonus). The OBX design capitalizes on FLOW, not necessarily INTERCOOLING.
You can't rate how good an intercooler is by pressure drop. The dP across the intercooler just indicates how well it flows. I can go grab a piece of straight pipe that will outflow any intercooler on the market. Sure the piece of straight pipe flows great, but it doesn't cool worth a damn........the same thing can be said about alot of high flow intercoolers. The whole point of an intercooler is too cool, not necessarily flow fantastic (all though it is a nice bonus). The OBX design capitalizes on FLOW, not necessarily INTERCOOLING.
06-04-2005, 09:58 PM
#26
Blithely,no but why not? Cars are similar, both being s/c'ed(D1, compared to a ysi) TH400, 9 inch similar if not the same displacement.....KP running 13psi at the track, you running 17psi....on the dyno/track?..Kp's car being a TA and heavy, you having a lightweight formy.
He went 10.4@130 on 13 deg timing on streets, Plenty left. OBX being a small portion of that, but an important part of that portion. It works nicely without the big name on it.
I've also "read" that the OBX are junk too, but i've found NOTHING to support that. The OBX IC isn't even made by em, they contract it out from a IC manufacturer in china..
I've owned two OBX IC's so far. Cast aluminum tanks that are nice and smooth on the inside which promotes better flow without stalling, sheetmetal tanks on other IC's have sharp corners where the air stalls, decreasing flow. All welds are very clean and impressive. The bar and plate core have quite a few fins per inch, which I can see being a difference between the other widely known ICs and the OBX. But for the same part they'll get the job done very well.
I'd just want some tech on why the OBX sucks and not speculation. I gained power with it, and so have a lot of other people here on tech aswell. My first one didn't fall apart, puke fins or crumble into a bunch of china coke cans. My second one is doing nicely with my GT42 so far, but its too early to tell if the turbo will be too much for it, we will see. If it can't hang i'll post. I do want to look into meth injection as it seems you can't go wrong there if you have any form of FI on your ride.
The OBX low cost comes from the fact that the plant that makes em can spit out 200000 a year-translation, low cost, quality? They are a ISO9001 plant. Its a good universal unit that can accept a wide swath of the cars out there. Griffin has a leg up and can charge what they do because they will custom make one to your specs and your cars requirements...more of a tailor made suit so to speak...so you pay more. I'm a jeans and t shirt guy so I'll go with the "jeans" as it'll cover my *** just fine, i'll leave the suit to the big money guys.
I would really like to see if the OBX is bad as a few people make em out to be, but alas all I have is real world results on my car and my old set up on KP's car and have read here on tech similar tales and results with the china IC....and not too many gripes about em:shrug:
Until there is a test proving that the obx sucks, I'll stick to those results. Speculation isn't tech to me.
J
He went 10.4@130 on 13 deg timing on streets, Plenty left. OBX being a small portion of that, but an important part of that portion. It works nicely without the big name on it.
I've also "read" that the OBX are junk too, but i've found NOTHING to support that. The OBX IC isn't even made by em, they contract it out from a IC manufacturer in china..
I've owned two OBX IC's so far. Cast aluminum tanks that are nice and smooth on the inside which promotes better flow without stalling, sheetmetal tanks on other IC's have sharp corners where the air stalls, decreasing flow. All welds are very clean and impressive. The bar and plate core have quite a few fins per inch, which I can see being a difference between the other widely known ICs and the OBX. But for the same part they'll get the job done very well.
I'd just want some tech on why the OBX sucks and not speculation. I gained power with it, and so have a lot of other people here on tech aswell. My first one didn't fall apart, puke fins or crumble into a bunch of china coke cans. My second one is doing nicely with my GT42 so far, but its too early to tell if the turbo will be too much for it, we will see. If it can't hang i'll post. I do want to look into meth injection as it seems you can't go wrong there if you have any form of FI on your ride.
The OBX low cost comes from the fact that the plant that makes em can spit out 200000 a year-translation, low cost, quality? They are a ISO9001 plant. Its a good universal unit that can accept a wide swath of the cars out there. Griffin has a leg up and can charge what they do because they will custom make one to your specs and your cars requirements...more of a tailor made suit so to speak...so you pay more. I'm a jeans and t shirt guy so I'll go with the "jeans" as it'll cover my *** just fine, i'll leave the suit to the big money guys.
I would really like to see if the OBX is bad as a few people make em out to be, but alas all I have is real world results on my car and my old set up on KP's car and have read here on tech similar tales and results with the china IC....and not too many gripes about em:shrug:
Until there is a test proving that the obx sucks, I'll stick to those results. Speculation isn't tech to me.
J
06-04-2005, 10:11 PM
#27
Nobody is saying the OBX is junk. We're saing it isn't a good INTERCOOLER.....campared to its higher priced brothren.
If your pinching pennies, I think the OBX is a great option. If your willing to spend, I think there are ALOT better intercoolers on the market.
If your pinching pennies, I think the OBX is a great option. If your willing to spend, I think there are ALOT better intercoolers on the market.
06-04-2005, 10:28 PM
#28
NoGo, I agree with you there and your knowledge is greater than what I can ever hope to know. I agree if the tanks were opposite of one another it would be very efficient.
And thanks for your explanation, as its all I wanted to know...its nice to read why it might not be a great intercooler and not read "I think its junk"...
But the smooth cast tanks are cost effective and flow a lot better than sheet metal hand fabricated tanks of similar design. For what it is it cools very nicely, mine is usually warmer on the bottom, but generally warm uniformly and cool on the outlet side top and bottom kinda 50/50.. Not bending the truth but providing info on what happens on my car. I got a nice lil laser thermometer I can do some testing with after a nice boosted run to get some good results
Nice lil PDF to back up what both sides of what we are talking about
www.dvdtfab.com/intercoolertestlab.pdf
But you are right, outlets on top and bottom or opposite of one another are most efficient.
OBX being the third on the right of that pic, cast smooth end tanks, good but not great like what you are talking about.
Penny pincher not really(200+ on heat shielding alone), but my car has always ran damn good too, still the fastest 4th gen here in NM and I guess that isn't too bad for a "cheapy" like me. I just spend my money with thought, my FMIC will handle what I can throw at it. I dont ever plan on making 800HP or going faster than a 10.99 and trust me, it'll handle what I need just fine.
I just build it for what I need it to do....get me to and from work with a smile
J
And thanks for your explanation, as its all I wanted to know...its nice to read why it might not be a great intercooler and not read "I think its junk"...
But the smooth cast tanks are cost effective and flow a lot better than sheet metal hand fabricated tanks of similar design. For what it is it cools very nicely, mine is usually warmer on the bottom, but generally warm uniformly and cool on the outlet side top and bottom kinda 50/50.. Not bending the truth but providing info on what happens on my car. I got a nice lil laser thermometer I can do some testing with after a nice boosted run to get some good results
Nice lil PDF to back up what both sides of what we are talking about
www.dvdtfab.com/intercoolertestlab.pdf
But you are right, outlets on top and bottom or opposite of one another are most efficient.
OBX being the third on the right of that pic, cast smooth end tanks, good but not great like what you are talking about.
Penny pincher not really(200+ on heat shielding alone), but my car has always ran damn good too, still the fastest 4th gen here in NM and I guess that isn't too bad for a "cheapy" like me. I just spend my money with thought, my FMIC will handle what I can throw at it. I dont ever plan on making 800HP or going faster than a 10.99 and trust me, it'll handle what I need just fine.
I just build it for what I need it to do....get me to and from work with a smile
J
Last edited by frcefed98; 06-04-2005 at 11:02 PM.
06-04-2005, 10:32 PM
#29
10 Second Club
I've read some post where the OBX folks were hoping for better results. The two Vortechs (me and SJH) lost boost. It may be because of the much longer tubing required versus the short stock Vortech route. On the other hand with the OBX I have ran my best time and mph. I guess I could do some testing to see if the OBX is or is not a restriction for me. It definitely helped keep my IAT's lower. With the aftercooler running iced water I hit 170 during a pass, the OBX hits 130-140. I hope that the intercooler really is no problem. It is very well made and fits into the car like it was designed for it. Nogo, how did you come to feel it doesn't cool well?
06-04-2005, 10:48 PM
#31
On the other hand with the OBX I have ran my best time and mph
No Go is right, the bottom inlet outlet design will always cool with a smaller portion of the IC core due to the fact that the inlet and outlet are directly across from each other. If they are opposite of each other the IC uses it core more effectively to cool the air being passed through it.
J
06-04-2005, 11:01 PM
#32
I was at N vs S when John ran his car and you cant compare the two at all - the mph speaks for itself. John's car was thrashed together and he had some major problems before he ran and wasnt being very agressive on the starting line. While mine wasnt optimal I dont expect it to run 1-2 tenths better with the amount of boost and engine mods I have at the same DA - cooler weather will step it up though. You have to remember I have been building race cars for over 25 years and my 'first time' outs tend to be a little better then most 
Johns car will run way better then mine no doubt.
The OBX is an OK intercooler, it works OK. I am seeing a 30-35 degree temp rise on a 1/4 mile pass which is a lot more then the old ATI twins used to see. Granted the D1 is moving more air then the P1 but the D1 A&A kits I worked with were only showing a 20 degree rise with a much smaller cooler. I was seriously considering trying a different intercooler down the road. This OBX is decently made but its fairly heavy and the tht inlet/outlet should be staggered. Its an excellent buy but I woudnt compare it to some of the nicer intercoolers I have seen.
Johns car will run way better then mine no doubt.The OBX is an OK intercooler, it works OK. I am seeing a 30-35 degree temp rise on a 1/4 mile pass which is a lot more then the old ATI twins used to see. Granted the D1 is moving more air then the P1 but the D1 A&A kits I worked with were only showing a 20 degree rise with a much smaller cooler. I was seriously considering trying a different intercooler down the road. This OBX is decently made but its fairly heavy and the tht inlet/outlet should be staggered. Its an excellent buy but I woudnt compare it to some of the nicer intercoolers I have seen.
06-04-2005, 11:11 PM
#34
Don't sell your car short Kev, you will run him down....
Plus I just trying to get him back out to the track
And yes its good, but not great...i've said that. A custom cooler will always be better, but for the majority of the street rides here it'll do just fine.
I didn't see that rise in temps like you see, my ATI twins were worse than the OBX by far. After a pass you couldn't touch the ATI's for more than a few seconds and stayed heat soaked for a long time too.
Weird
06-04-2005, 11:22 PM
#35
I had very good luck with the ATI coolers but I was only running 8-9psi. My IAT numbers may be off a little since the upper rad hose is pretty close to the sensor.
I dont sell the car short, I know what it will run and for a 01 Z06 cam and stock valves with an LS1 intake and a y-pipe with only a 3" intermediate pipe and a cutout at nearly 3600lbs its doing OK. John will get his out, he is making probably 200 more rwhp then I am so I sure hope it runs better
I am not ready to change the IC just yet even though I'm sre it would pick up wit a better one.
I dont sell the car short, I know what it will run and for a 01 Z06 cam and stock valves with an LS1 intake and a y-pipe with only a 3" intermediate pipe and a cutout at nearly 3600lbs its doing OK. John will get his out, he is making probably 200 more rwhp then I am so I sure hope it runs better
I am not ready to change the IC just yet even though I'm sre it would pick up wit a better one.
06-04-2005, 11:33 PM
#36
Good point too, 9psi through the twins compared to the 15 I was pushing makes a big difference.
Less power, less tire, less timing, less boost, heavier car and driver j/k Selling something short. You'll see nines before him...willing to bet money on that. 200rwhp more....where and when...I need track MPH proof of that
If I have too, I'll make the change to a spearco or griffin, but only if this one proves to be less than desirable with my GT42, but I already said that a few posts back. I'm really considering meth tho...
J
Less power, less tire, less timing, less boost, heavier car and driver j/k
Selling something short. You'll see nines before him...willing to bet money on that. 200rwhp more....where and when...I need track MPH proof of that If I have too, I'll make the change to a spearco or griffin, but only if this one proves to be less than desirable with my GT42, but I already said that a few posts back. I'm really considering meth tho...
J
06-05-2005, 12:29 AM
#37
I am not ready to swap intercoolers either, I think the OBX works decent. It is by no means falling apart and I have inspected pretty close a couple times after reading about epoxied tanks and such. There is no epoxy on this one anywhere but thats not to say some didnt have it. I'd like to try a Griffin or other 'real' IC but I'm happy with the power its making now. I could up the pulley and get 3 more PSI for free or buy a high dollar intercooler and get maybe a couple PSI and slightly cooler IATs - no brainer there
I'm not that much heavier then PSJ, car is maybe I probably could take my car to steele tomorrow and run better then PSJ did last year but thats not my goal, matter of fact the car has already run exactly what I expected it to and with a little less weight and some more tire it will do better but we are getting into summer temps and humidity here so its a losing battle until fall.
I'm not that much heavier then PSJ, car is maybe
I probably could take my car to steele tomorrow and run better then PSJ did last year but thats not my goal, matter of fact the car has already run exactly what I expected it to and with a little less weight and some more tire it will do better but we are getting into summer temps and humidity here so its a losing battle until fall.
06-05-2005, 01:54 AM
#38
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Im still failing to see the proof that the OBXs dont work as well as others...
Im slightly amused by the bashing.... for the ones that say it doesnt COOL well.. what do you have to prove that? Lets see those comparos.
Im slightly amused by the bashing.... for the ones that say it doesnt COOL well.. what do you have to prove that? Lets see those comparos.
06-05-2005, 03:34 AM
#39
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not to hijack but now I have a question.
if the problem is known on the OBX, and a solution to that problem can be done to increase performance from that unit, then why has not any one done it?
all i see is cutting off one of the tanks, turning it over, and welding it back up so the inlet is not matched up to the exit forcing the air to run a zig zag so to speak.
if the problem is known on the OBX, and a solution to that problem can be done to increase performance from that unit, then why has not any one done it?
all i see is cutting off one of the tanks, turning it over, and welding it back up so the inlet is not matched up to the exit forcing the air to run a zig zag so to speak.
