Oil in the downpipe, turbo freaks I need your help
06-20-2005, 10:18 PM
#21
You have a GT42 too right? Glad i'm not alone with oiling issues.
Use to run dual VC breathers, but due to the alternator relocation, I now only run a breather on my driver side. All VC lines go into a catch can, no PCV valve at all, the line going out of the catch can goes into my airfilter.....should be evacuating pretty good under load....i'd think. I'll figure out another way to get the pass side breather back on.
J
Use to run dual VC breathers, but due to the alternator relocation, I now only run a breather on my driver side. All VC lines go into a catch can, no PCV valve at all, the line going out of the catch can goes into my airfilter.....should be evacuating pretty good under load....i'd think. I'll figure out another way to get the pass side breather back on.
J
06-20-2005, 11:02 PM
#22
I would hook a PCV/check valve back up - these motors make a fair amount of crankase pressure when they are sealed up just from the small crankcase. I would just rig up a quick PCV valve to the valve cover like stock and let it idle and see what happens for the heck of it.
You can also do a scavange pump if you are desperate
You can also do a scavange pump if you are desperate
06-20-2005, 11:53 PM
#25
GOSH DANG IT LS1TECH!!! Board keeps messing up
KP do you really think the PCV has that much influence on this? I had it in when I started test driving the turbo set up and got rid of it a lil before this started happening.
I thought it would hinder the evacuation of gases going from the VC's to the catch can and then into the airfilter hat. I also noticed "smoke" aka blow by coming out of the drivers breather after that too. Guess I messed that up huh?
And knowing my luck I prolly put that damn fitting where the most oil gets slung
??
KP do you really think the PCV has that much influence on this? I had it in when I started test driving the turbo set up and got rid of it a lil before this started happening.
I thought it would hinder the evacuation of gases going from the VC's to the catch can and then into the airfilter hat. I also noticed "smoke" aka blow by coming out of the drivers breather after that too. Guess I messed that up huh?
And knowing my luck I prolly put that damn fitting where the most oil gets slung
??
06-21-2005, 12:32 AM
#26
most likely the fitting is below the windage tray on these if its in the pan, I was just giving you a hard time
But a PCV wont hurt anything and may help, naturally you need a check valve on the PCV line so you dont pressurize the crankcase with boost. Just try it and see, you may be loading up with oil just driving around and when you nail it all that oil starts burning off.
When the car is idling pull the oil cap off and put your hand over the hole, with a PCV it will suck you hand down a little, without it there will be pressure coming out. If you dont have enough angle to get a real good drain a little positive pressure may be really hurting you. If it started smoking after you took off the PCV well there you go..
I'm not running anything to the air filter, I have 2 breathers, one on each valve cover and a PCV/check valve/catch can. Intake is as dry as it could be and there isnt even any oil residue around the breathers - works fine for me.
PCV could have nothing to do with anything, just speculating..
But a PCV wont hurt anything and may help, naturally you need a check valve on the PCV line so you dont pressurize the crankcase with boost. Just try it and see, you may be loading up with oil just driving around and when you nail it all that oil starts burning off.
When the car is idling pull the oil cap off and put your hand over the hole, with a PCV it will suck you hand down a little, without it there will be pressure coming out. If you dont have enough angle to get a real good drain a little positive pressure may be really hurting you. If it started smoking after you took off the PCV well there you go..
I'm not running anything to the air filter, I have 2 breathers, one on each valve cover and a PCV/check valve/catch can. Intake is as dry as it could be and there isnt even any oil residue around the breathers - works fine for me.
PCV could have nothing to do with anything, just speculating..
06-21-2005, 10:56 AM
#27
Sorry J to see you having those issues so soon... sucks!
This was one of the reasons i put up that post earlier in the year about any phamspeed cars running... i wanted to see what the threshold was on these engines/blocks for running a turbo with a normal gravity drain set-up.
I will say when i bought my TTi street kit, the turbo smoked even with the restrictor the previous owner was using. When i made my first DIY kit, i used the same turbo (not rebuilt), same oil set-up with the drain in the same spot (the side of the pan like it is now), and the turbo quit smoking completely.
Bottom line is, i thought i needed a rebuild, turns out the turbo was just too low.
Good luck man... can't wait to see some numbers out of that thing!... and mine too as soon as i get my tranny back.
This was one of the reasons i put up that post earlier in the year about any phamspeed cars running... i wanted to see what the threshold was on these engines/blocks for running a turbo with a normal gravity drain set-up.
I will say when i bought my TTi street kit, the turbo smoked even with the restrictor the previous owner was using. When i made my first DIY kit, i used the same turbo (not rebuilt), same oil set-up with the drain in the same spot (the side of the pan like it is now), and the turbo quit smoking completely.
Bottom line is, i thought i needed a rebuild, turns out the turbo was just too low.
Good luck man... can't wait to see some numbers out of that thing!... and mine too as soon as i get my tranny back.
06-21-2005, 11:54 AM
#29
Mongse
-4 for the feed line
-10 for the return.
Rice etr, Thanks for the kind words Yeah the turbo sits low, but so far it looks to be up high enough. I should have put the oil drain hole closer to the turbo itself instead of the top middle of the pan. There is about 3 inches from the drain hole in the pan to the outlet of the turbo. But spread that out over 28 inches and the slope gets real shallow. Looks like I'm getting through it tho....
kp, looks like you had the answer. I put the PCV valve back in today(found it in my spare parts bin
) And the car is only slightly puffing out oil from the exhaust pipes. It's probably burning the rest of the oil that was in the DP and exhaust so I'll let it sit like that. I'll wrestle that second breather on today somehow. Car needs it. I'll do that test you mentioned above too.
So just let the catch can vent to atmosphere and not to the filter?
I'm going to drop .5 qt too just to see.
I know you were kidding about the drain hole being in the wrong place....but I don't doubt my luck at all
-4 for the feed line
-10 for the return.
Rice etr, Thanks for the kind words
Yeah the turbo sits low, but so far it looks to be up high enough. I should have put the oil drain hole closer to the turbo itself instead of the top middle of the pan. There is about 3 inches from the drain hole in the pan to the outlet of the turbo. But spread that out over 28 inches and the slope gets real shallow. Looks like I'm getting through it tho....kp, looks like you had the answer. I put the PCV valve back in today(found it in my spare parts bin
) And the car is only slightly puffing out oil from the exhaust pipes. It's probably burning the rest of the oil that was in the DP and exhaust so I'll let it sit like that. I'll wrestle that second breather on today somehow. Car needs it. I'll do that test you mentioned above too. So just let the catch can vent to atmosphere and not to the filter?
I'm going to drop .5 qt too just to see.
I know you were kidding about the drain hole being in the wrong place....but I don't doubt my luck at all
06-21-2005, 12:04 PM
#30
I put the catch can between the valve cover and PVC. Its valve cover (well valley cover in my case) >PCV valve>catch can>check valve>intake manifold. I just have a breather on each valve cover and thats it. If you have excessive blowby it will start dripping out of the breathers after a few blasts but so far I havent seen any oil at all come out of the breathers.
It may 'fix' your problem for now but you really need to have the turbo draining better most likely. At WOT you have no evacuation at all and it will probably dump some oil but you wont notice it as much blasting down the road. Just plug the hole you made and make another one if you can get a better angle, I have done dozens of vortech cars drilling and tapping the pan on the car and never had any problems with shavings, its only aluminum
It may 'fix' your problem for now but you really need to have the turbo draining better most likely. At WOT you have no evacuation at all and it will probably dump some oil but you wont notice it as much blasting down the road. Just plug the hole you made and make another one if you can get a better angle, I have done dozens of vortech cars drilling and tapping the pan on the car and never had any problems with shavings, its only aluminum
06-21-2005, 12:48 PM
#31
I would guess a drain back problem also. I know the bay is tight but a good way to check it would be to rig something up with a clear hose and bottle on the drain back side. Disconnect your feed line to the turbo and put it directly to the drain line. See if the oil backs up. If it backs up at idle, then there's definately a problem.
The GT series turbos are supposed to have a restrictor fitting on the feed side as well. If you put a regular npt pipe to #4 AN fitting it may be feeding the turbo too much oil as well. Just a couple things to check. May save you from having to remove it and send off the turbo.
Alex
The GT series turbos are supposed to have a restrictor fitting on the feed side as well. If you put a regular npt pipe to #4 AN fitting it may be feeding the turbo too much oil as well. Just a couple things to check. May save you from having to remove it and send off the turbo.
Alex
06-21-2005, 02:34 PM
#32
Alex Great info, I did the clear line already and it was flowing into the pan. I can try it the way you suggested too.
As for the restrictor fitting, nope nothing was there at all. Just a hole and a regular NPT to -4an fitting that came with my bag o stuff for the turbo.
I haven't had a chance to call ATP for a restrictor fitting for my GT, as its been a busy day of trouble shooting this...and rain
kp I route my catch can like you described, and i'll end up redrilling the pan too. I know this drain can be in a better place...but hey I get an A for effort...all my s/c'ers have been self contained
So we've narrowed it down to PCV valve=made a big difference in the smoke show
Drain back line, good for now
and
Too much oil getting to the turbo...possibly.
Thanks all and thanks a million to KP, he's a tremendous help to me all the time.
J
As for the restrictor fitting, nope nothing was there at all. Just a hole and a regular NPT to -4an fitting that came with my bag o stuff for the turbo.
I haven't had a chance to call ATP for a restrictor fitting for my GT, as its been a busy day of trouble shooting this...and rain
kp I route my catch can like you described, and i'll end up redrilling the pan too. I know this drain can be in a better place...but hey I get an A for effort...all my s/c'ers have been self contained
So we've narrowed it down to PCV valve=made a big difference in the smoke show
Drain back line, good for now
and
Too much oil getting to the turbo...possibly.
Thanks all and thanks a million to KP, he's a tremendous help to me all the time.
J
06-21-2005, 03:37 PM
#33
chronic masturbator
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hopefully I wont have the same oil problems since my pan also is already tapped in between the 2 ribs in the pan, I guess I'll know when the motor goes back in the car *searches for turbo spacer just in case*
good luck jer
Gary
good luck jer
Gary
06-21-2005, 06:17 PM
#36
From what i've been reading on *import* boards
A lot of N/A guys have this problem when going to a turbo. Too much oil volume from either too large a feedline or too much pressure will cause a smoke screen to happen, so a restrictor is needed or a smaller feedline -2 or -3an for example. So I also emailed ATP turbo, who also sells the garrett line to ask em which one I should run, smaller oil feedline or restrictor OR both They carry the restrictors and smaller feedlines.
Man these turbo set ups are picky bitches.
J
A lot of N/A guys have this problem when going to a turbo. Too much oil volume from either too large a feedline or too much pressure will cause a smoke screen to happen, so a restrictor is needed or a smaller feedline -2 or -3an for example. So I also emailed ATP turbo, who also sells the garrett line to ask em which one I should run, smaller oil feedline or restrictor OR both They carry the restrictors and smaller feedlines.Man these turbo set ups are picky bitches.
J
06-21-2005, 08:50 PM
#40
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I don't post here often anymore so if you need some more help, call me over at GZM
Try taking off the drain line and start up the car. If oil runs like a garden hose, you need to put a restrictor between the engine and turbo oil line. I've seen this happen before with high pressure pumps.
Try taking off the drain line and start up the car. If oil runs like a garden hose, you need to put a restrictor between the engine and turbo oil line. I've seen this happen before with high pressure pumps.