chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

I have a Turbo400 tranny with a transbrake on it. No issue with spooling for me.

Hooking? Not sure about that. Have to wait and see if a 28" slick can hook on my heavy car. If not I can turn the boost down 1PSI at a time to a point where it does hook at the launch. Then let the boost controller add more boost once I'm a little bit down the track. I'm capped at 17PSi right now due to the stock PCM restrictions.

725RWHP through the TH400 should provide some interesting launches. I'm not sure what to expect. I still need to put a cage in it.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

how does the stock pcm restrict you?

what can you do about it?
how much $ does it take

chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

My setup uses a 3 bar sensor. This setup (beta test) had some bugs in it that won't allow me to go over 17PSI. If I do it tends to make the injectors function erratically which can cause a lean condition.

I can either wait for the PCM coding to be fixed or I can go to an aftermarket PCM like the Big Stuff 3.

Figure on about 10K to get a full single turbo setup installed which would include tuning.

eviltwins

Turbos make full boost and torque low in the RPM range. Blowers keep rising and rising. If you don't think turbos have a flatter torque curve you're on crack.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

procharger- http://www.ls1speed.com/artwork/elim/ELIM_YSI.jpg

turbro- http://www.ls1speed.com/artwork/elim/ownz.jpg


hmmm

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

10.12 @ 137 (6.5? @ 108)
700-725 rwhp
3820 # raceweight with 3.23 gear
60' 1.54
15 psi of boost 93+ methanol
Lets get some comparisons started. I did what the poster above said.....got a lot of weight...just keep throwing hp at it to get the time. I can't say which is faster but it makes for great internet conversation.

KAOS

iTrader: (5)

i like those 2 graphs. one question is do you want the tq to be flat all the way across or continue to rise. i mean the turbo graph above make like 400 at 3500rpm then goes to nearly 600 by 4k rpm on the SC graph at 35k its at 400 then at 4k rpm its only at 450. so does flatness really what is important or a continuing increase. how many cars start their tq curve at like 600 and hold it all the way across the board.

ty_ty13

iTrader: (42)

please include if your a super or turbo and you amount of boost.

great! im looking for more!

TIA

Tyler

sb427f-car

What evil twins was getting at was that there is more area under the curve. Once a turbo hits full spool, it makes boost and holds that (provided its under load). The centrifugal blowers don't make full boost and keep "adding" and and power till you shift. The faster you spin the blower via the overdrive, then the more boost you make quicker. With the turbo, it'll take a little to build full boost, but once it's there, it's there. Both have the ability to make broad power curves, but turbos have the ability to do more so. The one thing that someone already eluded to was the fact that if you are dealing with a tricky track and need the ability to pedal, usually the blower car will win that as they do have the ability to get back into boost quicker.

Take this into account too. Cecil County Dragway here in Maryland ran the Outlaw Uprising in a 1/8th mile format to facilitate more paritty (sp?). It's not that they didn't have the extra 660' to run, but this was what they saw as the equalizer between the blower, turbo, nitrous, and NA cars. Unfortunately I didn't make it, but it makes sense as far as the idea. I remember catching a race of outlaw guys and Pro Mod guys in a clash on the 1/8th mile in Louisianna somewhere? Moran was there, but he didn't run faster than a 4.08~4.12 1/8th mile, while the alky blower cars were running into the 3s.

I think it's a toss up as it does matter who can put the power down the best and who's the better shoe to put it across the strip first.

LSONE

iTrader: (1)

those two graphs in comparrison are VERY misleading you cant compare an 850HP large turbo car to a 650hp supercharged car.

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

With those two graphs, you pointed out the benefit of the turbo, more torque and power A LOT SOONER.
The YSI had to be spun to nearly 6800rpm to make its power...peaky

The turbo on the other hand only had to spin to 5800rpm to make 844/813...seems the turbo is making power through almost the entire rev range, not peaky

While there are a lot of s/c'ed LS1s running around with great results, there are also a few turbo LS1's with great times too. The difference is in the quantity of turbo to supercharged LS1's. Turbo kits for our cars have been hard to come by, but s/c'er kits (complete kits BTW) can be bought from almost any sponsor to the right.

I've had two s/c'er set ups and now the turbo. The s/c'ers were great but really sucked down low, with the turbo the power is almost immediate, lag is really a non issue with my kit and the GT42. I can tell you that I now have a ton more torque down low than I ever had with my D1. Driving my D1 around town was tiring because the car was always so lazy. Not an issue anymore with the turbo, the 3800 stall and the turbo get along very well.

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

Cablebandit is running incon twin turbos if I remember right.
J

sb427f-car

Well, from everything I've read, on the internet, in print, whatever, the closer you can make Peak TQ to Peak HP (like within 1000 RPM is almost ideal) the better off you are. Also, what you elluded to also shows something else. The turbo makes peak TQ for nearly 500~700 RPM. If the blower makes peak TQ for nearly 300 RPM, that's a lot (just roughly looking @ that graphs). Both TQ curves rise, just one rises more constantly than the other.

chasgiv3

iTrader: (1)

Were both these cars that had dyno graphs on them 6 speed cars? Because I found that with a loose converter your torque can look completely different from a tight converter which both will be different from a 6-Speed manual.

kp

iTrader: (34)

i'll play,

I am at 3400lbs, dynod at 515/460tq through the mufflers last time and ran 10.25 @ 135 in the 1/4 (106.5 in the 1/8) with a 1.49 60' at 2600' DA. Run that through a HP/MPH calculator and you get 568rwhp, I picked up 1psi of boost since I dynod the 515 and the exhaust was open so the 515dyno may be a little misleading but thats what it dynod that day with 11psi.

If you compare Cablebandit's 3820lb car at 700rwhp and 137mph, the HP/MPH calculator gives 667rwhp to make a 3820lb car go 137 which is more then impressive in my book for a street driven car with a/c and all.

So what does that all mean?

It just means dyno numbers can be misleading The turbo vs supercharger thing has been debated dozens of times here. Honestly I would say the faster of the two is in the hands of the builder, not so much which of the power adders is 'better.' Both will make good power, just in a different place.

Here is my last dyno, dont let the earth shattering torque scare ya, also notice with a lose converter the RPM graph starts at 5000rpm so to me the whole dyno thing is kinda meaningless

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

well said

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

hopefully some more will post. the closer the combos the better. KP what gear you running? Nice 60' and times!!!!

kp

iTrader: (34)

I am running a 3.70 with 27.6" tall tires, I need some 1.40x 60's to make me happy though I'd pulley up a little but I'm still on stock connecting rods (ARP 2000 bolts) and I think I'm pushing it already.

You car is hauling as well, maybe in the fall we can hook up at steele and try for some 9s when the weather cools off.

Rpm2800

You do know that those dyno sheets are in favor of the turbo car right. Basically like someone stated , don't get mixed up in a "flat" cure, because look at the sheets, they both have about 400 lbft at about 3500 rpm, but look at just 4000 rpm. The turbo has about 100 more lbft, and just keeps rising . Shame on the turbo for continiung to build tourque instead of stay "flat". LOL. I know the power betwee the two sheets is different, but even on a lower power setup , the turbo would still make more average tourque and lowe end. Maybe even more down low with a smaller turbo.

Would you rather have 400 - 450 for 1500 rpms which is very "flat" LOL. or 400 rising to over 800 in the same span. That blower curve does not hit 500 lbs until about 5200 rpm. The turbo hits 500 at about 3800, and at the same 5200rpm where the blower has 500lbs , the turbo has over 800 lbs. Thats more average , peak, and "area under the curve" etc. BIG DEAL IF IT AINT FLAT. LOL..

You would have to have problems to not think that turbo curve is not "better" , unless you just want to loose some low end tq for whatever reason.

Those sheets you posted basically are proving the point of what people are saying about turbos. Or in a way undermining your point.


I know you said you see blower cars putting down better et's. And someone said blowers still rule in the mustang world.... They must be watching something different from the rest of us, or just using one or a few blower car wins' as "evidence", because from what I see, turbo cars dominate most of the classes they are allowed in.

You can't judge a turbo cars drag potential by looking on this site. Why ... because most of the 800rwhp turbo cars on boards like this are daily drivers, or cars not set up to maximize drag racing. If that is the case, a blower may be better for you or someone else. Turbo cars take more to set up and you have to have everything together . Without doing what it takes, you may just run faster with a blower , because everything comming together is not as critical to running as fast. People call supras dyno queens, but many of the big power ones are street cars, set up to run from a roll and drive everyday. ...... but look at he ones that are set up right.
That goes for any car. You could make a 800 hp 500 ci big block with a 300 shot run slower than another 1100hp set up if it had the wrong gear, converter , etc. Turbos require more to setup for drag racing , including the entire car, such as a 2 step , trans break, right converter, etc. If you want to just run quicker without getting those things , your car may be quicker with a blower and that may be for you. But if you got 2 cars of equal weight , power, and both are set up right, and can hook, well who do you think will win. The one with the "flat" curve or the one that has 100 to even 200 + or 300 more lbft throughout a broad range.

sb427f-car

KP, this I have witnessed. Obviously, there's a couple ways to get a pro stock or pro mod car to go into tire shake....One is not having enough air in the rear meats and when you start to stand on the gas, they cup with the U being upside down, lessing the contact patch, the other two ways that I know of are to underpower or overpower the race track. Unfortunately I don't have any vids of the car in my avatar, but that SB turbo car puts out mad power and has exactly that problem inside the 330', at least every time I've seen him run. Big Mike can attest to that too, they just haven't figured out the clutch and motor setup to handel a thumber with a 427 SBC and a lenco. While a blower car may beat you in the first 60', if they don't have that overdrive pulleied correctly, it can be just as lazy off the line. The thing is, that once a trubo car catches overdrive, lookout, because all that broad area will real things in in a hurry.