incon intercoolers question flow/efficiency
Two other things to consider on IC's efficiency......Pressure drop vs IAT reduction. If the Incon's are gaining 80degrees over ambient with a pressure drop of 1.5 psi, you could replace them with a horizontal flow single IC and drop the IAT's to 25 degrees over ambient with a 4psi pressure drop.....and lose power...pressure drop is primary in IC design....heat reduction is secondary.....best of all worlds is a large enough IC that would allow +10degrees over ambient IAT's and 0.10psi pressure drop air to air that weighed 10lbs.
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
Originally Posted by onfire
Two other things to consider on IC's efficiency......Pressure drop vs IAT reduction. If the Incon's are gaining 80degrees over ambient with a pressure drop of 1.5 psi, you could replace them with a horizontal flow single IC and drop the IAT's to 25 degrees over ambient with a 4psi pressure drop.....and lose power...pressure drop is primary in IC design....heat reduction is secondary.....best of all worlds is a large enough IC that would allow +10degrees over ambient IAT's and 0.10psi pressure drop air to air that weighed 10lbs.
Its an iterative process.....
Actually, the first qustion is how much space do you have to work with...lol...which isn't much on a streetable fbod...then you balance flow and heat rejection....but in a perfect world with unlimited space you're correct. 
Originally Posted by sscam68
I disagree, the first question I would ask myself is how much heat needs to be displaced....then design the heat exchanger from there. After that I would look an tube I.D.'s and get a ballpark on what kind of a pressure drop to expect for a given tube length and internal surface area. Fin density and type also play a part in that, although you have a little bit more freedom depending on where the heat exchanger is placed (read: cross flow).
Its an iterative process.....
Its an iterative process.....
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
Originally Posted by onfire
Actually, the first qustion is how much space do you have to work with...lol...which isn't much on a streetable fbod...then you balance flow and heat rejection....but in a perfect world with unlimited space you're correct.
With the Incon coolers, yeah I agree. Only way to go is get a "thicker". Hopefully it won't hinder crossflow to much, then again the movement of the vehicle drives that anyways. Louvered fins will help under space constraints.
I have an incon setup and plan on doing a front mount. There is a lot of space where the bumper support is
.Untimately whats going to drive the setup, IMO, is manufacturing capability from the distributor and as always $$$$. If you've got $$$$ I'm pretty sure you could have something fancy made.
Frank
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From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
Originally Posted by cablebandit
hard to get one to fit the front of a t/a and then you gotta deal with the butt pipe or totally do away with it like Harlan did....still his best run that i remember was 10.0 @ 140
I still think i can do that now with stock intercoolers and alky in cooler weather.
I still think i can do that now with stock intercoolers and alky in cooler weather.
Got room for these? They are probably a bit better than what you have now and we have 2 on the shelf. (Core is 14.5 wide, 6in tall, 4.2 thick, 2.5 in/out)
I had these made for my car as I did not want to block any airflow to the radiator/condensor, or remove my bumper support.
http://www.ls1speed.com/pictures/DSC01461.JPG
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From: Downers Grove,IL
If it's cooling your after then a higher water % will help. Water has about twice the latent heat of evaporation as alcohol. I recently removed my intercooler and went back to a water/alky setup.
I have logged and tested various mixes and the effect on IAT.
Pure alcohol did not give any where near the cooling effect that a 66% water/33%alky mix did. Not even close!
Also tested spraying before the blower. About 20-30' higher IAT than spraying after.
These tests were on 11psi peak with no intercooler and a single m10 nozzle at 140psi. Maybe I'll post up a graph later.
I just completed a dual nozzle setup that is pretty slick IMO that flows 22GPH at 100psi. I'm getting better cooling with the water/alky than with a 3" OBX.
Dropped 40lbs off the front end and picked up 2-3psi.
Steve
I have logged and tested various mixes and the effect on IAT.
Pure alcohol did not give any where near the cooling effect that a 66% water/33%alky mix did. Not even close!
Also tested spraying before the blower. About 20-30' higher IAT than spraying after.
These tests were on 11psi peak with no intercooler and a single m10 nozzle at 140psi. Maybe I'll post up a graph later.
I just completed a dual nozzle setup that is pretty slick IMO that flows 22GPH at 100psi. I'm getting better cooling with the water/alky than with a 3" OBX.
Dropped 40lbs off the front end and picked up 2-3psi.
Steve
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
Originally Posted by S_J_H
If it's cooling your after then a higher water % will help. Water has about twice the latent heat of evaporation as alcohol. I recently removed my intercooler and went back to a water/alky setup.
I have logged and tested various mixes and the effect on IAT.
Pure alcohol did not give any where near the cooling effect that a 66% water/33%alky mix did. Not even close!
Also tested spraying before the blower. About 20-30' higher IAT than spraying after.
These tests were on 11psi peak with no intercooler and a single m10 nozzle at 140psi. Maybe I'll post up a graph later.
I just completed a dual nozzle setup that is pretty slick IMO that flows 22GPH at 100psi. I'm getting better cooling with the water/alky than with a 3" OBX.
Dropped 40lbs off the front end and picked up 2-3psi.
Steve
I have logged and tested various mixes and the effect on IAT.
Pure alcohol did not give any where near the cooling effect that a 66% water/33%alky mix did. Not even close!
Also tested spraying before the blower. About 20-30' higher IAT than spraying after.
These tests were on 11psi peak with no intercooler and a single m10 nozzle at 140psi. Maybe I'll post up a graph later.
I just completed a dual nozzle setup that is pretty slick IMO that flows 22GPH at 100psi. I'm getting better cooling with the water/alky than with a 3" OBX.
Dropped 40lbs off the front end and picked up 2-3psi.
Steve
Any before and after track times?
Frank
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Enthusiast
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From: Downers Grove,IL
Ok, here is a graph. These 3 logs were done about 30 minutes apart from each other.
The nozzle was about 30" away from the IAT sensor on the post blower runs and about 10" before the blower inlet on that particular test.
As you can see the mph rise was about the same on all 3 runs. As you can see IAT was by far the lowest injecting after the blower with a 66% water/33% alcohol mix.
With straight alky IAT hit 189'F vs 122'F for a 66% water/33% alky mix.
I believe injecting before the blower had hotter IAT's simply because a lot of the cooling effect is wasted cooling down the hot impeller and blower housing as it passes through.
I have also injected straight methanol with the same results, it simply does not cool nearly as well as having water in the mix. However even though the IAT is much hotter, straight alcohol seems to be slightly faster.
KR was also worse with the 100% alky.
A-F ratio was 12.0-12.5-1 with the 66/33 blend.
A-f dropped to 10-1 with 100% alky.
Steve
The nozzle was about 30" away from the IAT sensor on the post blower runs and about 10" before the blower inlet on that particular test.
As you can see the mph rise was about the same on all 3 runs. As you can see IAT was by far the lowest injecting after the blower with a 66% water/33% alcohol mix.
With straight alky IAT hit 189'F vs 122'F for a 66% water/33% alky mix.
I believe injecting before the blower had hotter IAT's simply because a lot of the cooling effect is wasted cooling down the hot impeller and blower housing as it passes through.
I have also injected straight methanol with the same results, it simply does not cool nearly as well as having water in the mix. However even though the IAT is much hotter, straight alcohol seems to be slightly faster.
KR was also worse with the 100% alky.
A-F ratio was 12.0-12.5-1 with the 66/33 blend.
A-f dropped to 10-1 with 100% alky.
Steve
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From: Albuquerque NM - The Land of 8000ft DA
I pretty much figured you were cooling the blower and adding heat when you injected before the head. Just curious to see what you thought it was.
Di you have a chance to play with timing?
Di you have a chance to play with timing?
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From: Downers Grove,IL
yes, with pump gas I could run 20' timing with no Intercooler and the water/alky mix, at 22' it would begin to knock. With the OBX FMIC I could not get away with 20' timing on pump gas without knock.That was only with a single 10GPH nozzle though. My new system flows more than double that but I have not tested it yet.
Steve
Steve
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From: Cleveland, OH
wow...your results are just what i had envisioned in my mind!!! I understand this is not the norm for a properly sized intercooler but mine are past that. I was using NO water before so even a 50/50 mix oughta have good results for me.