incon intercoolers question flow/efficiency
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 1
From: Cleveland, OH
incon intercoolers question flow/efficiency I am wondering if i would run faster without the intercoolers and just use meth as I am now with maybe 20% water added. My IATs rise 80 degrees thu the 1/4 before the meth...dunno how much the meth drops it. On a 80 degree day, after burnout, my IAT will be around 100 and climb to 180 at the end. Since I am at 15psi, would any pressure drop reduction offset the heat they remove since the turbos wouldnt be working as hard. I know a big intercooler would be ideal but just trying to look at the whole combo I have now. I need to measure the pressure drop and temp drop thru the intercoolers first I'd imagine. Any idea on how much the stock ICs can flow? I THINK the cores are 12x6x3.5
Also thinking about a bigger pump to spray more alky. i read on the turbo buick sites that the alky really drops their egts. If that is true, wouldnt that help the lack of exhaust flow out of the incons? I am not changing kits...just trying to maximize the incons. I understand exhaust heat helps spool but I imagine my backpressure is already too high so maybe cooler egts might help that a tick.
For those who think the idea is nuts, turbomustangs.com has several cars making more power than me with no intercooler so it can be done.
Also thinking about a bigger pump to spray more alky. i read on the turbo buick sites that the alky really drops their egts. If that is true, wouldnt that help the lack of exhaust flow out of the incons? I am not changing kits...just trying to maximize the incons. I understand exhaust heat helps spool but I imagine my backpressure is already too high so maybe cooler egts might help that a tick.
For those who think the idea is nuts, turbomustangs.com has several cars making more power than me with no intercooler so it can be done.
Last edited by cablebandit; Aug 9, 2005 at 07:59 AM.
if your are planning on spraying alot of meth, as much as you are talking about, i would consider getting a different intake, the Gmmp single plan. since the ls6 isnt ment to flow liquids i would be concerned about puddling and distribution.
after that the only real way to tell is probably experimenting.
after that the only real way to tell is probably experimenting.
Larger pump? my understanding, with any of the alky kits using the shur-flo pumps you s/b able to bog if not totally drown the engine. maybe something is not right? I wouldn't worry about another intake, if injecting is working as it should the mix should be totally vaporized, not atomized.
my car has the razor progressive kit and if the control is turned up for too much alky it misfires so bad as to give kr.
why aren't you running straight meth?
my car has the razor progressive kit and if the control is turned up for too much alky it misfires so bad as to give kr.
why aren't you running straight meth?
Last edited by DaveSchott; Aug 9, 2005 at 09:21 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 1
From: Cleveland, OH
i am running straight meth...2 nozzles..m10 and m15. I have a smc pump which only outputs 70-75 psi. i was thinking of going with the shur-flow to about 175psi....change alky to 80/20 meth/water and dump the intercoolers and see what happens. With the current setup, i run the pump wide open with no bogging. it comes on around 10psi. I just wonder how inefficient the intercoolers are at 15psi since temps are getting to 180 at the end of the 1/4....plus there is the weight of them.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 1
From: Cleveland, OH
hard to get one to fit the front of a t/a and then you gotta deal with the butt pipe or totally do away with it like Harlan did....still his best run that i remember was 10.0 @ 140
I still think i can do that now with stock intercoolers and alky in cooler weather.
I still think i can do that now with stock intercoolers and alky in cooler weather.
I've got an extra Incon ic that's going on a flow bench in two weeks to get ya some hard data. I'm going to guess you'll gain 1.5 psi at 15psi of flow by removing them....about 34rwhp IF you can maintain the charge air temp without them....I'm guessing with the vertical flow design and the good endtanks, the Incon's are pretty efficient.
Most of the front mounts (not all) are horizontal flow...which could be less efficient in terms of pressure drop than the Incon's.
Harlan probably already knows the answers to my guesses.
Most of the front mounts (not all) are horizontal flow...which could be less efficient in terms of pressure drop than the Incon's.
Harlan probably already knows the answers to my guesses.
Trending Topics
80 degree rise wow, I thought I was bad with 40-45 degree rise on a 95 degree day 
I go from 100-110 after a burnout to 145-150 or so in hot weather.
I have been considering dumping the IC and trying water/meth instead. Save 40lbs off the front
I go from 100-110 after a burnout to 145-150 or so in hot weather.I have been considering dumping the IC and trying water/meth instead. Save 40lbs off the front
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?
Pouria Savadkouei
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
The Banks twin turbo 350's come stock unintercooled, all the way up to 700 crank hp I think. However, they do say that intercooling is required after 700hp. Their cold side setup is very direct... straight from the compressor to the intake manifold.... maybe 12" of pipe with two very gradual bends totaling about 90 degrees.
Originally Posted by cablebandit
I am wondering if i would run faster without the intercoolers and just use meth as I am now with maybe 20% water added. My IATs rise 80 degrees thu the 1/4 before the meth...dunno how much the meth drops it. On a 80 degree day, after burnout, my IAT will be around 100 and climb to 180 at the end. Since I am at 15psi, would any pressure drop reduction offset the heat they remove since the turbos wouldnt be working as hard. I know a big intercooler would be ideal but just trying to look at the whole combo I have now. I need to measure the pressure drop and temp drop thru the intercoolers first I'd imagine. Any idea on how much the stock ICs can flow? I THINK the cores are 12x6x3.5
Also thinking about a bigger pump to spray more alky. i read on the turbo buick sites that the alky really drops their egts. If that is true, wouldnt that help the lack of exhaust flow out of the incons? I am not changing kits...just trying to maximize the incons. I understand exhaust heat helps spool but I imagine my backpressure is already too high so maybe cooler egts might help that a tick.
For those who think the idea is nuts, turbomustangs.com has several cars making more power than me with no intercooler so it can be done.
Also thinking about a bigger pump to spray more alky. i read on the turbo buick sites that the alky really drops their egts. If that is true, wouldnt that help the lack of exhaust flow out of the incons? I am not changing kits...just trying to maximize the incons. I understand exhaust heat helps spool but I imagine my backpressure is already too high so maybe cooler egts might help that a tick.
For those who think the idea is nuts, turbomustangs.com has several cars making more power than me with no intercooler so it can be done.
Originally Posted by kp
80 degree rise wow, I thought I was bad with 40-45 degree rise on a 95 degree day I go from 100-110 after a burnout to 145-150 or so in hot weather.
I have been considering dumping the IC and trying water/meth instead. Save 40lbs off the front
I go from 100-110 after a burnout to 145-150 or so in hot weather.I have been considering dumping the IC and trying water/meth instead. Save 40lbs off the front
my TTi intercooler got me some 190-200 in 90* weather.
does the 4" OBX weigh that much? I ended up ordering one as my A2W wont fit where i want it to and dont have the time or money right now to do another, and if its good enough for you to get nines, it will be good enough for me for a while.
i think im going to cut one of the end caps so one is on the top and one on the bottom then reweld it. i think that will help some with cooling, maybe after i switch to the megasquirt and ditch the MAF, ill convert it to a 4" outlet too.
Yea thats the 4 inch OBX, its not bad really. It was 15 degrees cooler out when I was running 9s with it and it went from 97 to 132 on the 9.90 pass so it will probably be even better when it cools off out more.
No doubt flipping one tank over will help some, I still have the battery in the stock location and I couldnt find a good way to make that work without redoing all the piping.
I would say the IC is at least 25lbs (maybe more, I weighed it but forgot what it weighed), plus the brackets, plus the extra piping would get me 40lbs off the front, less whatever the meth kit would be.
Shame its not easy to do a FMIC on yours cablebandit..
No doubt flipping one tank over will help some, I still have the battery in the stock location and I couldnt find a good way to make that work without redoing all the piping.
I would say the IC is at least 25lbs (maybe more, I weighed it but forgot what it weighed), plus the brackets, plus the extra piping would get me 40lbs off the front, less whatever the meth kit would be.
Shame its not easy to do a FMIC on yours cablebandit..
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 1
From: Cleveland, OH
hmmm good info KP an Onfire. I wonder about spraying meth before the turbos as well. I understand about impeller wear but we are talking 10 secs at a time...the air filters prolly let in bigger particles than the misted/flashed alky. i dunno what the incon ICs weigh but that would be a bonus too. Of course a big FMIC would be the way to go but I am trying to optimize what i already have. I already showed myself that 20psi low timing made the same power as`15psi and modeate timing.
At BG saturday I ran 13 degrees of timing and the car only lost .1 and 2mph over when I bumped it back to 17 later in the day. The temp was slightly better with the lower timing but it sure wasnt a huge difference.
Biggest difference for me is leaning the car out when its hot, just dont forget to richen it back up when it gets cooler I usually just adjust the fuel pressure at the track, when it ran 9.90 I had it at 61psi to keep a 12.5 a/f, I ran 57spsi to keep a little above 12:1 last saturday. If you are running on just the PE table the fueling will vary quite a bit by temp, wont make a huge difference if its 'close' but if you are looking for those last tenths it does.
Biggest difference for me is leaning the car out when its hot, just dont forget to richen it back up when it gets cooler
I usually just adjust the fuel pressure at the track, when it ran 9.90 I had it at 61psi to keep a 12.5 a/f, I ran 57spsi to keep a little above 12:1 last saturday. If you are running on just the PE table the fueling will vary quite a bit by temp, wont make a huge difference if its 'close' but if you are looking for those last tenths it does. too bad you cant increase your IC tubing size any. that would help out some as it snakes through the car in seems like it gets pinched some.
do you have any room to do a bigger ICs? if your willing.
another option is to spray no2 or co2 on the ic, or just a small shot in the system.
do you have any room to do a bigger ICs? if your willing.
another option is to spray no2 or co2 on the ic, or just a small shot in the system.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,903
Likes: 1
From: Cleveland, OH
according to inall, you could put same core but 1" thicker in the same locations. For thst money i'd get a custom FMIC. If n20 gets used, i'll just spray it I need to do the tests for temp/pressure and then make a move.
I need to do the tests for temp/pressure and then make a move.
Originally Posted by cablebandit
are you running alky/meth as well KP...i forget