Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's..
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I want to know what would it take for me to run 11.5's at 122mph plus on DR's with a little weight reduction. I am already building a forged 346ci shortblock. I have a M6 with 3.42's now.. I am planning on a 12 bolt b4 the FI, but want to know if I should stay with the 3.42's or go with 3.73's... Tell me what you guys think would help me reach my goal..?
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From: Green Oak, MI
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Is Azam still around?
He ran that, Incon TT, mild MTI Stage I head, stock cam I think, forged piston and maybe a stock rod but I think he had rods in it too.
MTI built him the car, his, along with Rod's were the most impressive to me, very little work, alot of power and a ton of reliability.
The build up cost him very little from what I remember him saying, stock valves and all that, hell it may have been a stock head.
11.50's on a DR will be hard, I ran 11.80's @ 127 on a DR and had a hard time doing any better than that.
IMO if your only shooting for 122mph I wouldn't build a big build FI motor, just a piston/rod and maybe a little clean up of the head. Rod runs 121 in good weather on a stock motor and I think he's close to 20K miles with the kit on the car.
He ran that, Incon TT, mild MTI Stage I head, stock cam I think, forged piston and maybe a stock rod but I think he had rods in it too.
MTI built him the car, his, along with Rod's were the most impressive to me, very little work, alot of power and a ton of reliability.
The build up cost him very little from what I remember him saying, stock valves and all that, hell it may have been a stock head.
11.50's on a DR will be hard, I ran 11.80's @ 127 on a DR and had a hard time doing any better than that.
IMO if your only shooting for 122mph I wouldn't build a big build FI motor, just a piston/rod and maybe a little clean up of the head. Rod runs 121 in good weather on a stock motor and I think he's close to 20K miles with the kit on the car.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. What is your setup and what was Azam dyno'ing? I have never heard of him... Of course I would love to run 127mph, but I need suggestions to get there...
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. At first I was going Turbo, but my car is lowered and I was told that would cause problems. The TT setups are pretty much all sold out.. Unless someone is planning on selling a Stage 2 next year sometime.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I would say for me that running anything less than a 12.0 was going to be very difficult at stock weight + SFC's and the TT kit on a Nitto DR.
It makes plenty of power for a stock motor + FI (470/488 dynojet) at 6psi, but the car weight and stock rear was the trouble. Didn't want to risk an et street. (Untill now that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ). I broke 1 torsen unit on a 2.1 60' as it was.
That single turbo from ls1 motorsports sounds very nice, and had I not had the incon kit; I would probably get one of those.
To run an 11.5 at my weight (3780 w driver) was going to require more tire. Thats the bottom line. Even my better 60' times 2.0 lol, and highest traps (123) couldn't break into the 11's at that weight. I would say that if I could have gotten the raceweight down to 3400-3500 and a few more traction mods, maybe.
At the time I was running 12.0-12.1 at 118-123 I had 275 nitto's, Metco lca's, slp phb, and BMR subframes for suspention mods.
I have now added a 12 bolt with 3.73's, the relocation brackets for the metco's, removed STB, and hope to install this week the lightweight battery and Hal adjustable shocks and struts (w. drag springs). I am saving for a torque arm, and am undecided about the removal of the frt swaybar.
I hope without the last 2 to run pretty consistant 11.5's at 120 or so. And if I can get the tuning right, may try to turn the boost up to 8psi, remove some more weight and try for a 10.9.
Hope this helps.
It makes plenty of power for a stock motor + FI (470/488 dynojet) at 6psi, but the car weight and stock rear was the trouble. Didn't want to risk an et street. (Untill now that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ). I broke 1 torsen unit on a 2.1 60' as it was.
That single turbo from ls1 motorsports sounds very nice, and had I not had the incon kit; I would probably get one of those.
To run an 11.5 at my weight (3780 w driver) was going to require more tire. Thats the bottom line. Even my better 60' times 2.0 lol, and highest traps (123) couldn't break into the 11's at that weight. I would say that if I could have gotten the raceweight down to 3400-3500 and a few more traction mods, maybe.
At the time I was running 12.0-12.1 at 118-123 I had 275 nitto's, Metco lca's, slp phb, and BMR subframes for suspention mods.
I have now added a 12 bolt with 3.73's, the relocation brackets for the metco's, removed STB, and hope to install this week the lightweight battery and Hal adjustable shocks and struts (w. drag springs). I am saving for a torque arm, and am undecided about the removal of the frt swaybar.
I hope without the last 2 to run pretty consistant 11.5's at 120 or so. And if I can get the tuning right, may try to turn the boost up to 8psi, remove some more weight and try for a 10.9.
Hope this helps.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Sounds like 11.5 is more difficult than I thought. My best NA with the below mods was 12.28 at 116mph with a 2.0 60ft.. That was with DR's, 3.42, M6, and 3750lbs. I have to believe that I am going to pick up atleast a half a second going from 390rwhp to almost 600rwhp.. I know traction is a problem, but I am planning on reducing some weight.. I will try to get the car to be atmost 3700lbs with FI and me in it..
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I just want to hit that # once and then I will be happy.. I am more of a spectator than a true racer. I do street race on occassion, but not very often. I just want to be able to kill Vipers, Porsches, Ferraris, etc., that come my way on the highway from a 70mph roll..
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. 11.5 isnt THAT hard. SJH went like low 11's (100mph in the 1/8) with the following....stock shortblock, homeported heads, hotcam, G-Trim at ~10lbs + water inj., STOCK A4, Vig2800, 2.73s!, and one possible cracked ringland.
i think is was around 11.22 i cant recall. this was on 15" BFG's.
not hard with enough power.
i think is was around 11.22 i cant recall. this was on 15" BFG's.
not hard with enough power.
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From: Barto PA
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Mine will do that if I had a trans and right tuning. I'm looking for now is 11s on street tires.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I think it is possible, because C5 Pig claim to have run 11 flat almost with DR's on a NA setup..
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I'm not saying that its impossible. But the 2 people mentioned: SJH, has 1 big advantage, (automatic); and I assume the other c5pig has a vette which weighs a lot less than 3800 #'s raceweight, especially if its NA.
Most all FI parts add up to a 100 pounds to the car right where it hurts, in the nose.
Another reason why its hard to compare a NA to a FI setup making similar hp numbers, is that there might be a heads/cam car making 420 rwhp, but I guarantee it wont make 450+ TQ. And definately not at the lower rpm ranges that FI cars will. Which takes us back to the traction issue.
I know I'm not the best driver, but I do ok. And I really dont think someone could jumpo right in my car and run an 11.5 on a dr. Maybe a 11.7 on a 15" BFG, but definately not on a 17" nitto.
Most all FI parts add up to a 100 pounds to the car right where it hurts, in the nose.
Another reason why its hard to compare a NA to a FI setup making similar hp numbers, is that there might be a heads/cam car making 420 rwhp, but I guarantee it wont make 450+ TQ. And definately not at the lower rpm ranges that FI cars will. Which takes us back to the traction issue.
I know I'm not the best driver, but I do ok. And I really dont think someone could jumpo right in my car and run an 11.5 on a dr. Maybe a 11.7 on a 15" BFG, but definately not on a 17" nitto.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. I agree with you.. I will make an attempt and if I do not make then atleast I tried and know that if I put stickier tires on I could...
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. well, the almost 600 rwhp may be enough to get there. Then again, even if you get the same 2.0 60's there will still be quite a problem not blazing the tires on a shift from 1-2 or maybe even 2-3 with dr's.
On a good day at the track I wasn't getting any spin, just a good chirp on shifts. But, I only have 470-480 rwhp. Plus, I contend that at that HP level and a manual; rearend breakage will be a problem. Necessitating a 12 bolt or 9 in, and at that point you will run more tire than a dr anyhow.
Trust me, wheel spin at speeds above 45-50 on a 1-2 shift (if the track isn't hooking) is no fun. I dont like being almost at mid track and looking at the wall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Which happened both times I tried to run on street tires. And I bet 480 rwhp on a street tire and 600 on a dr = about the same amount of traction. NONE. lol
Have fun with, but realize that the car is safer with more tire, and more traction. Especially when wheelspin is an issue in the top of 2nd or even 3rd gear.
On a good day at the track I wasn't getting any spin, just a good chirp on shifts. But, I only have 470-480 rwhp. Plus, I contend that at that HP level and a manual; rearend breakage will be a problem. Necessitating a 12 bolt or 9 in, and at that point you will run more tire than a dr anyhow.
Trust me, wheel spin at speeds above 45-50 on a 1-2 shift (if the track isn't hooking) is no fun. I dont like being almost at mid track and looking at the wall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Which happened both times I tried to run on street tires. And I bet 480 rwhp on a street tire and 600 on a dr = about the same amount of traction. NONE. lol
Have fun with, but realize that the car is safer with more tire, and more traction. Especially when wheelspin is an issue in the top of 2nd or even 3rd gear.
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. My 10.98 @ 125.83 MPH was with BFG Drag Radials on a 16" tire. I ran consistently low 11's that night (11.11, 11.20, etc). They were around 1.65 to 1.7x 60's. I dyno'd 486.3 RWHP / 487.0 RWTQ with that setup, all on stock internals.
The FI is Golden West Performance D-1SC ATI Procharger running 9.5 to 10 PSI.
The FI is Golden West Performance D-1SC ATI Procharger running 9.5 to 10 PSI.
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Thats definately badass. I would be very proud of how your car is running. I dont think I will ever be that quick.
And by no means am I trying to belittle anyone running faster than I am, at 12.0; but a stick shift car isn't going to be anywhere near as quick as an auto with a DR on it. Unless you get the weight down. Or do something else to make it hook.
And by no means am I trying to belittle anyone running faster than I am, at 12.0; but a stick shift car isn't going to be anywhere near as quick as an auto with a DR on it. Unless you get the weight down. Or do something else to make it hook.
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Now I know whats been up your sleeve, Vince <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> lol
I wont say a word <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
I wont say a word <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,259
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From: Valrico, Florida
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Carl I have always wanted to do FI.. I am researching right now.. I am still going to run NA until I get the money to move to the next level..
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Looks like Rob Raymer just created a pretty reliable and crazy FAST FI set-up.
7#'s of boost, rich tune, and a low 2.0 60'(easy on drag radials)
7#'s of boost, rich tune, and a low 2.0 60'(easy on drag radials)
Re: Lets talk about a reliable mid 11 sec FI setup on DR's.. Vince: most of your 11.5 is in your 60' You should be able to get in the 1.8x range with Nittos. that would probably put you in the hunt for 11s with current set-up.
A 122 trap speed will not take that much boost to get there. In fact, a good set of heads, maybe a touch more cam, and the gears in a 12 bolt and you'll be pretty much there, both ET & MPH.
A nice 100 shot kit & heads and you'll easily make your goals and have no FI daily driving issues.
A 122 trap speed will not take that much boost to get there. In fact, a good set of heads, maybe a touch more cam, and the gears in a 12 bolt and you'll be pretty much there, both ET & MPH.
A nice 100 shot kit & heads and you'll easily make your goals and have no FI daily driving issues.