Whats wrong with my Procharger setup?
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? A couple months ago I installed a procharger 8psi kit with the D-1 compressor. This kit supposedly gives 560 HP at the flywheel on a completely stock F-body. I then installed Mac Headers and an offroad Y pipe. There is also an exhaust cutout after the Y pipe. These arent my only mods but they're probably the only ones that would affect my situation. I had my car dynod at Car Craft on sunday 7-21. Although the weather conditions were less than good to say the least it only put out 419 RWHP without Nitrous. 560HP with a 15% drivetrain loss would be about 476 to the rear. I was expecting about 450 plus whatever the headers added but needless to say I'm slightly disapointed. Could this be a computer tuning problem? I do not have O2 sims but I was told this only affects the check engine light and does not affect tuning. When I had the car dynod before the charger with a 150 shot I was at 440 RW with no headers. What is going on here? Please help!
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? One more thing I forgot to mention is that the Mac headers required me to remove my EGR system. They made the headers for 98-99 & 01-02 models. So I just removed it all and plugged the hole in the manifold with an expansion plug. I dont know if maybe this messed up some tuning parameter but I wouldnt think so. EGR is not supposed to function at WOT anyways.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? Was it a Dynojet or a Mustang dyno?
What is your fuel system?
With just a D1SC and headers, you're not going to come anywhere near 476RWHP without the engine tearing itself to pieces.
With LS1edit or custom tuning, a decent fuel system, and a lot of time you MIGHT get 450RWHP. I seriously doubt it though. Most basically stock Procharger setups dyno in the 400-425 range. 400 w/o headers, 420-430 with long tubes.
I still haven't figured out why everyone is going with the D1SC's. The P1SC is more than enough for 95% of the builds we see on here.
What is your fuel system?
With just a D1SC and headers, you're not going to come anywhere near 476RWHP without the engine tearing itself to pieces.
With LS1edit or custom tuning, a decent fuel system, and a lot of time you MIGHT get 450RWHP. I seriously doubt it though. Most basically stock Procharger setups dyno in the 400-425 range. 400 w/o headers, 420-430 with long tubes.
I still haven't figured out why everyone is going with the D1SC's. The P1SC is more than enough for 95% of the builds we see on here.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? It was with a Dynojet. I have an inline booster pump and my fuel presure never drops below 60psi. Its at 62 psi at idle or cruising. I went with the D-1SC because the place that I bought it from said that the race "tuner" kits (over 7psi) are now automatically upgraded to include the D-1. So this dyno number was normal? How can Procharger claim stock cars at 9 psi on pump gas will put out 560 horsepower to the flywheel? Are they on crack or whats the deal? Where are they getting their numbers? I'm pretty pssssed off. I would have probably cried if I hadnt put the headers on before testing. Thats a lot of money for a 120 HP gain. I could have bought an extra engine for that. Ahhh!!
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? A buddy of mine runs a shop here in KC that is in the top 20 of Procharger sales and installs. As a matter of fact, ATI does a big chunk of their testing at this shop's dyno. I've seen a ton of Procharger dyno's and they're just not in that range.
If you have no custom tuning, there is likely a fair amount of power to be gained there. You need to get on a dyno with wideband O2 and see what your A/F is. Something may be pretty far off.
As far as Procharger's claims, I have no idea. Did you hear that from the shop you bought it from or from Procharger literature?
Do you have a boost guage hooked up? How much boost are you actually making? Are you getting knock retard?
If you have no custom tuning, there is likely a fair amount of power to be gained there. You need to get on a dyno with wideband O2 and see what your A/F is. Something may be pretty far off.
As far as Procharger's claims, I have no idea. Did you hear that from the shop you bought it from or from Procharger literature?
Do you have a boost guage hooked up? How much boost are you actually making? Are you getting knock retard?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? When you say they are not in that range do you mean the range I got or what I expected? What does the typical Procharger dyno show at your buddys shop on a near stock application. ATIs literature said at 9psi 560 Flywheel HP. I was running 8-9 psi before headers and now I'm at 7-8 psi with headers and offroad Y Pipe. I have a custom superchips program. The only thing not in that custom program are the Headers, Y Pipe, and lack of EGR system. The engine isnt knocking. I always mix 93 octane with 110 octane for safety. I appreciate your input.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? I'll be over at the shop tonight, so I'll look through the dyno graphs and see what I can come up with. I'll post something later tonight.
Sorry for the confusion on the HP Range. What I was meaning to say is that you are in the range of what I would expect to see. I would be suprised to see 470+rwhp on a basically stock car with a D1SC.
They're tuning a D1SC or P1SC Heads/Cam/Longtubes car on Thursday so I'll post those numbers once I get them. Between those and the stock numbers, you should have a pretty good idea where you should be. A basic P1SC on a stock car, no tuning, with ATI's FMU generally puts down a little over 400 in an A4, 410 or so with a M6. Keep in mind these numbers are for a conservative tune.
Sorry for the confusion on the HP Range. What I was meaning to say is that you are in the range of what I would expect to see. I would be suprised to see 470+rwhp on a basically stock car with a D1SC.
They're tuning a D1SC or P1SC Heads/Cam/Longtubes car on Thursday so I'll post those numbers once I get them. Between those and the stock numbers, you should have a pretty good idea where you should be. A basic P1SC on a stock car, no tuning, with ATI's FMU generally puts down a little over 400 in an A4, 410 or so with a M6. Keep in mind these numbers are for a conservative tune.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? Allright thats cool. Heads and cam probably add a ton of power though so I dont think that one would be a good comparison. But it would be interesting anyhow since I want to do that mod next. Also ask your buddy if my headers and Y pipe not being in my tuning program could cause any potential power losses. Lack of O2 sims dont screw anything up does it?
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? Ok. I'm at the shop right now and just got through with a good little BS session on your setup. A few points from them.
1. If you're using the fuel system provided by ATI, it WILL not provide enough fuel. It barely provides enough fuel for the basic 4# kit. You'll need new injectors and a healthy pump.
2. 9# of boost should put you in the high 4XXrwhp range. 10# is the 5XXrwhp range. They typically get into the low 400's with the stock 4# ATI kit. It sounds like you're starving for fuel.
3. Check your boost guage, make sure it works correctly.
4. Check everything else. Make sure none of your hoses are collapsing or anything else is freaking out.
5. 10# of boost without a damn fine fuel system is going to tear your engine to shreds.
Just a bit of info.
Denz
1. If you're using the fuel system provided by ATI, it WILL not provide enough fuel. It barely provides enough fuel for the basic 4# kit. You'll need new injectors and a healthy pump.
2. 9# of boost should put you in the high 4XXrwhp range. 10# is the 5XXrwhp range. They typically get into the low 400's with the stock 4# ATI kit. It sounds like you're starving for fuel.
3. Check your boost guage, make sure it works correctly.
4. Check everything else. Make sure none of your hoses are collapsing or anything else is freaking out.
5. 10# of boost without a damn fine fuel system is going to tear your engine to shreds.
Just a bit of info.
Denz
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? I have a 255lph inline booster pump with 42.5# injectors. I can check my gauge hookup but i'm running the 3.20" pulley so it has to be producing the boost. I guess it could be leaking out a hose somewhere but my gauge does indicate its making the right amount of boost. My fuel presure is at 62psi at cruise speed and never drops below 60 psi at WOT. I'm confused.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? I forgot to mention that the dyno was done in 4th gear. When I got my car done with the nitrous they did it in 3rd gear and thats what I have always heard of. I've never heard of doing it in 4th. I doubt that could make that much of a difference but I'm just looking at every possibility.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 118
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From: Houston
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? Just some info about procharger that I know. I dynoed a stock 01 vette with a procharger, with the programming that came with the kit. It only put down 345 RWHP. He added FLPs and had it dynoed tuned. The car made over 500 RWHP. Goes to show you how crappy the procharger tuning is.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? I dont want to sound like a dumbass but it is 7:30am in MN right now so I'm still not awake. But what are FLPs? I got my custom programming through superchips. But if I knew of a place in this state that did dyno tuning I'd be there in a flash.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? FLP's=FLP Longtube Headers.
It sounds as if you're problem is nothing but tuning. Your fuel system sounds good and you're reporting no other problems.
Who does FI tuning in MN is a good question. I have no idea who is the closest.
If you want to take a short vacation to Kansas City, I can hook you up. LOL
How far is Agostino for you?
It sounds as if you're problem is nothing but tuning. Your fuel system sounds good and you're reporting no other problems.
Who does FI tuning in MN is a good question. I have no idea who is the closest.
If you want to take a short vacation to Kansas City, I can hook you up. LOL
How far is Agostino for you?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 69
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From: MN
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? Hey Denz, thanks for the offer. If I only had a flatbed. haha. I was actually thinking about Agostino also but I'm in the minneapolis area so depending on where in canada that is it cant be less than 400 miles. I just talked to a local shop and they gave me a number of a place that does Dyno tuning. Its about $700. That really sucks because thats about how much my superchips program cost. Not to mention before all these mods I bought a Hypertech. That will be a grand total of $1700 in computer tuning. Geeez!!!
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Kansas City, MO
Re: Whats wrong with my Procharger setup? No prob. I doubt you can go wrong with Agostino.
Make sure you get a shop that is using LS1edit. It is about the only thing out there to use right now unless you're using Ed Wright. Besides messing with your fuel pressure, there isn't a whole lot you can do without LS1edit. Just make sure they have it in house.
Make sure you get a shop that is using LS1edit. It is about the only thing out there to use right now unless you're using Ed Wright. Besides messing with your fuel pressure, there isn't a whole lot you can do without LS1edit. Just make sure they have it in house.
