I am planning a major upgrade in the very near future and need some info/advice. I was told that my 2002 WS6 has some LS6/Z06 components that were not in previous models. LS6 intake, valve springs, oil pump, timing chain, Z06 clutch system, and steel shifting forks that were aluminum in 98-2000 models. Is this true and are there any other goodies I should be aware of? I am looking for (the Holy Grail) 550+ rwhp and high 10s while still preserving mileage without revving beyond 6500. Corsa cat back is here. Procharger 10 psi D1SC tuner kit is on the way, as is Comp 216/220 .525 .532 114 cam, Delphi/Lucas 42# injectors, LS1 Edit, Auto Tap/EFILiveV5, and a lot of suspension goodies. For now, I plan to use stock heads and springs (if they are indeed LS6 springs) since lift, duration, and rpm will not be excessive. I have not decided on headers yet, but I’m leaning toward Bassani mid-length w/stainless y-pipe w/high flow cats (found a good deal and these are excellent quality). What I need is a good high pressure/volume fuel system. I am new to LS1Tech and have been reading a lot of the older posts and would like to avoid as many problems as possible. Will I need a BOV? What about a FMU, or fuel regulator, or just a strong inline/in-tank pump? I am impressed with the knowledge you guys possess and look forward to gleaning some pearls of wisdom from you. Sorry so long, but I have been holding back for a while until I was fairly sure of what I want to do. Basically, I don’t have to be the fastest guy in the LS1 world. I just want a very strong, reliable, kick-*** ride that still gets 25 mpg. What do guys think? TIA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: 1bad2k2ta ]</small>

 

I'll throw in my $.02. Hopefully others will chime in soon.

Valve Springs: You'll kill the stock springs in no time. Best bet at this point is to get some Comp Cams 26918-16. Should be around $160.

Pushrods: I'd add some hardened pushrods while you're at it. $115

Headers: You are better off with longtubes if you have the cash. Sounds like you do since you're planning this buildup. Most are pretty good, just don't go with SLP if you're planning on lowering the car.

Clutch: You may as well put a new one in while you're doing the rest of this. You'll eat the stock clutch as soon as you start putting down the power. Popular choices: McCleod, Spec, Cartek.

Fuel: You can probably get by with the stock pump plus an inline booster. I know the stock plus inline can support at least 550rwhp with 38# GTP injectors.

Cam: Not bad. I would have probably went a little more rowdy. Should do pretty well though.

Rear End: You didn't mention it. If you hook up with an M6 and that power level, you're going to snap it in half. Moser or Strange 12 bolt $2300 or so.

Oil Pump: Should be fine

Engine: You're going to have a tough time getting to the 550+RWHP mark without ported heads or a lot of boost. Even if you can, your stock shortblock is not likely to survive for very long. At least put in some ARP rod bolts and perhaps a thicker cometic head gasket to drop your compression a bit. Start saving for a shortblock. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Tuning: I'd aim for 11.5:1 or so A/F. You're going to need all the help you can get to keep it together.

Just some thoughts,

Denz

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>

 

First of all, how much of my stock stuff is LS6/Z06?

For my application LS6 valve springs, timing chain, oil pump, Z06 clutch assembly, and stock rear-end should last for many miles and runs if I don't launch at 6k. Right?

Cam's power range is 1400-6300; will set rev limiter to 6500 and short shift if boost is too high at 6000.

I plan to upgrade heads, clutch, rearend and maybe timing chain and oil pump next spring.

Heads will be SDPC (unless I can find a better deal between now and next spring) raw LS6 cores so I can take advantage of their larger chambers.

They will be mildly ported and polished to optimize low lift flow and velocity since they will already flow more than I need at top end.

Valves will be 2.02 stainless intake w/1.57 severe duty exhaust. 918 springs (unless something better comes along between now and then), titanium keepers and retainers.

Clutch will probably be Spec Stage 2 and rearend will probably be Moser 12-bolt, but I haven't decided what gears yet. 3.42s or 3.73s, depends on where I am rpm-wise when I trip the lights with the stock rearend.

The plan is to launch at about 3-4k and let the supercharger do the rest. Boost should come in at about 6 psi at 2-2.5k and build to about 10 psi at 6000. I think that is what Black LS1 T/A is seeing. YOU OUT THERE MIKE?

I still need a fuel system. You think all I need is an inline pump? No regulator or in-tank pump? 10# of boost with 42# injectors at 58 psi sounds pretty thirsty to me.

What about a BOV for when I shift. I don't want to paint my bay with 10W30 from the dipstick tube. And how do I install all that stuff. C'mon guys help me out. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

This car is brand new with less than 900 miles on it. I need it to last a little while and I know it is going to take me a while to work out all the kinks. But, with help from you guys, I think everything will work out nicely. Then I will give 'em a run for their money next spring! <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For my application LS6 valve springs, timing chain, oil pump, Z06 clutch assembly, and stock rear-end should last for many miles and runs if I don't launch at 6k. Right?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Timing Chain: Yes, although it is worthwhile to change it if you're putting that much money into a setup.

Oil Pump: Should be fine

LS6 valve springs: You have stock LS1 Valvesprings if I remember correctly. Regardless, they will break. Put good Valvesprings in there.

Z06 clutch assembly: I don't know if the 02s have this or not. Regardless, it will not hold. You will roast it.

stock rear-end: It will break if you hook up at all. If you're planning on 550+rwhp, you're going to shred it. May as well add in a driveshaft while you're at it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What about a BOV for when I shift. I don't want to paint my bay with 10W30 from the dipstick tube. And how do I install all that stuff. C'mon guys help me out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you're planning on playing around with high levels of boost on a stock motor, you'd better know what you're doing. At this point, it sounds like your making up a wishlist without thinking any of it out in advance. If you go about this in the way you are describing, you are going to run into a hell of a lot of trouble.

I don't think you understand how much horsepower 550RWHP is. Why do you think you see FI guys buying low compression shortblocks, head studs, and tuning their *** off? Unless your tuning is dead on, you will tank your shortblock and lift your heads.

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>

 

Auto tap is here. LS1 Edit is on the way. I will use these extensively before the cam goes in. Then, I will use it a lot more before the supercharger goes on. I won't put the supercharger and injectors on until I am completely comfortable with my ability to tune the engine properly.

I am not diving right in and I have given it all a lot of thought.

I do know how much 550 rwhp is. I had a 2000 before I got the 2002 and I grew up around muscle cars in the late 60s and early 70s, had a 63 Nova w/69 Z/28 engine and 76 Camaro with 350, yada, yada. The 550 won't be until I get the heads next spring, but I do expect about 480 on stock heads. Bottom end is good for 10 psi at 6000, it is already being done.

Rear-end and clutch are weak links, but I think I can make them last until next spring. Pretty much have to, budget is shot.

May go ahead and get valve springs, but I still think LS6 springs should be OK with this cam. It is only slightly stronger that stock Z06 cam and I still do not plan on revving much past 6000 if at all.

I have been told that Z06 clutch has been stock replacement clutch for 2001 and was stock on 2002. May be just hearsay. I was hoping someone could confirm the items I listed above. I sent email to Scoggins Dickey for confirmation earlier today but haven't gotten a reply.

As far as the supercharger kit goes, it is a tuner kit which means you are left on your own to work out the fuel system and tuning, hence the question about the BOV. I know that when you shift at 6000 and the butterfly valve goes shut momentarily, boost can surge beyond 12 psi in the induction system...not good. The kit's anti-surge valve appears to be inadequate, at least for the D1SC. The P1SC is nice at 7 psi, but doesn't leave room for growth, so I went to the D1SC.

I suppose I could use a 7# pulley until I get the heads, clutch, and rear-end, but I think I can monitor boost with a guage, and with a BOV and a little experimentation, I think I can keep boost at or below 10 psi for safety's sake.

I'm hoping someone else will get around to all this before I do so I can learn from them. If not, I am capable and confident that I can make this work.

Who knows, by the time I get to the supercharger, someone may have come up with a whole different scenario. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: 1bad2k2ta ]</small>

 

A buddy of mine's shop just got through building a Heads/Cam/P1SC. I helped do part of the tuning on it. The car is incredibly similar to what you are describing. Hell, the cam is almost a duplicate.

I've seen the build, worked on it myself, and know how it turned out. Right now it is putting out 533RWHP@6000RPM. Yes, it could be putting more. It is tuned as safe as possible, but it is on borrowed time.

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: DenzSS ]</small>

 

What psi/pulley is he running? How fast is he spinning the compressor? What fuel system goodies? Injectors? What cam and valve springs? Any head work? What headers/exhaust? Sounds great! I am very interested in his results. Can you find out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

CNC Stage 2 heads(and whatever springs ship with them), cam roughly equivalent to yours, 1.8RR(The customer wanted them instead of going with a slightly larger cam.), Cartek Clutch and adj master cylinder, 3.10 pulley (I think) running 7#, SLP Longtubes, SLP Loudmouth, 38# GTP injectors, inline booster pump, stock fuel pump, a lot of tuning.

 

That's great info. I think the 3.4 pulley on D1SC gets you 10#. What inline pump did he get?

I am leaning toward Bassani mid-length headers (much easier to swap clutches). In a boosted application is there any significant benefit to using long tubes over mid-length?

Sounds like he is about at the limit of those injectors if not beyond. Do you know if he is running lean on the top end? 42# injectors running a conservative Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) of 60 will push the injector to 95% duty cycle and can support about 530 hp. More depending on fuel pressure. Do you know what his fuel pressure is?

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: 1bad2k2ta ]</small>

 

I'm assuming the inline pump is the one that ATI ships with the P1SC kit.

You'll see better results(in general) with longtubes than mid-lengths. Changing a clutch is a pain in the *** anyway, don't make your header decisions based on how easy it is to swap a clutch. At least it doesn't make much sense to me.

If I remember correctly, the fuel pressure is at 64psi. There is plenty of injector and pump to support 550RWHP. In no way is it running lean at any point in the curve. If I remember correctly, it is at 11.5 A/F throughout the curve. Might be a little closer to 11. A 38# injector at 64psi is roughly 42#.

You're not going to live long at 10# of boost. 10# is too much boost for a stock engine. Especially if you're running 10# after headers and your other mods.

 

Did his kit come with the fuel regulator and is he using it to get the 64 psi?

Black LS1 T/A aka Mike Buie has been running his setup for a long time now on all stock parts. He ran stock 10-bolt for several months with a lot of on and off track racing before it cratered, then he went to 12-bolt. He has 12# pulley and was seeing 12-13 psi until he installed Macs w/high flow cats which brought him down to 9.5-10.5 and he is still going.

I think with headers I will probably only see 9-9.5 psi and once the heads w/larger chambers and are on, I will probably only be seeing 8-9 psi at 6000. I am not a hard core, every Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday night drag racer. My car will probably only see the track a couple of times a month, maybe a little more while I'm dialing it in and like I said the supercharger won't even be going in until I am completely comfortable with my tuning capabilities. This will buy me time to save money for the heads, rear-end, etc. next spring.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1bad2k2ta:
<strong>Did his kit come with the fuel regulator and is he using it to get the 64 psi?

Black LS1 T/A aka Mike Buie has been running his setup for a long time now on all stock parts. He ran stock 10-bolt for several months with a lot of on and off track racing before it cratered, then he went to 12-bolt. He has 12# pulley and was seeing 12-13 psi until he installed Macs w/high flow cats which brought him down to 9.5-10.5 and he is still going.

I think with headers I will probably only see 9-9.5 psi and once the heads w/larger chambers and are on, I will probably only be seeing 8-9 psi at 6000. I am not a hard core, every Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday night drag racer. My car will probably only see the track a couple of times a month, maybe a little more while I'm dialing it in and like I said the supercharger won't even be going in until I am completely comfortable with my tuning capabilities. This will buy me time to save money for the heads, rear-end, etc. next spring.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They were using a FMU. Last I knew, it has been bypassed.

If Black LS1 T/A is running on all stock parts and was at 12-13#, I have no idea how he is doing it. Maybe you could ask him to chime in here and explain what he is doing. Either he really knows what he is doing, or he isn't all stock. Hell, just explain to me what "all stock" is. Stock rear, stock clutch, stock heads? Stock rear only?

 

I only ran one time with the 12 PSI. I immediately bought MAC Headers/Y-pipe to lower the boost but retain the power. It dropped me to around 10 PSI.

I've gone thru three Ring&pinion gears before going 12-bolt. I have an A4 with SY3500. The M/T ET Streets are what killed my rear so frequently. Nittos and even BFGs weren't so hard on it.

I don't really agree about the long-tube headers. Long-tubes shouldn't hurt, but they don't really help with forced induction. The scavenging affects of long-tubes on an NA motor is measureable. But Forced Inductions just wants room to breath, and it don't care about scavenging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

My fuel pressure sits at 56 to 58 PSI on and off boost, cruise or idle. I have 42 pound injectors and an inline Aeromotive 420lph Fuel Pump.

I didn't know much about what I was doing. Golden West Performance are the guys that kept me rolling.

I have stock internals. I DO feel I am on borrowed time, though. I never intended to run this much boost, but the pulley change I made took me higher than I expected and the headers only dropped it back a couple PSI.

I haven't taken it racing as much as I did last year and the early part of this year because I want to set the record for an unbroken motor before I get the 422 Stroker from GWP. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

Ok. Things are making sense now. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were in the 500+ range as well. I just couldn't add it up.

Nice setup you have there. I've met the guys from GWP in KC about a year ago. Nice group of guys and they definitely know what they're doing.

Nice ride, btw.

 

Check out his website at http://blackls1ta.com. He posts here regularly.

Stock bottom end, heads, cam, rear-end (until it went South earlier this year), A4. He started out with 3.4 pulley then went to 3.2 and when he saw 12-13 psi, he put Macs and y w/high flow cats on.

I sent him a PM to check out this thread.

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: 1bad2k2ta ]</small>

 

Thanks, DenzSS.

I will comment that even though I haven't gotten out a lot recently, I DID run this thing hard for a lot for a long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I went to the quarter mile or 8th mile track nearly every week and I did some cool street stuff out in the country.

One of the other ATI/GWP guys does autocross stuff. I'd consider that pretty arduous work for the car. He's around 500 RWHP with the GWP/ATI Stage II.

I'm sure if I were running 550+ RWHP, though. I'd already be replacing the motor or in a rebuild situation right now.

Thanks for the compliment! D:

 

I thought I'd share one of my funnest street stories with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

GWP ATI Procharger D-1SC vs. TWO 454 Big Blocks!
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...;f=20;t=000154

 

Thanks for the response Mike. Great story. So, am I being completely unrealistic in thinking I can run the 10# pulley with the cam, headers, stainless y-pipe w/high flow cats and Corsa catback on stock internals, drive train, and tires from say November to April if I'm not a weekend warrior, but, rather, a semi-monthly soldier in training? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My interests at the track will be for wot tuning purposes only since I don't expect to get any traction on street tires. Also, this is not my everyday driver, it is my pleasure vehicle so will not see much street action either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

 

YOu might could get away with it for a while, if you are religious about your octane and ALWAYS back out of it if you hear detonation. But a safer max boost level on stock internals would be 7 or 8 PSI, if you ask me.